AIBU to ask another mum not to hit her small child?

[Marylou2]

Just that really. Whatever his alleged misdemeanor he was about 2 and she grabbed him and hit him several times on his arms and back. It was in the children's department of Next.I asked her to stop hitting him which to be fair she did so she could start screaming at me to mind my own business. What would you have done?

[thebodydoestricks]

Yes I would have asked her if she was ok, needed a hand.

I did shout at a cow in ASDA who slapped her toddler around the face as as she was strapped in her pushchair.

She was angry but I was fucking livid. I shouted at her really loudly and she left.

I always wonder how she is.

We are all responsible for safeguarding and protecting children/animals/vulnerable adults.

Walking in by makes you just as guilty.

[CarryOnDancing]

What the bloody hell is all this "open hand" business? How does that reduce the break in trust between adult and child? How does it reduce the abuse of power?

If people didn't judge then how would we have any collective morals? I really don't like the "mind your own business" mentality. I think it's the job of society to self police and definitely the job of all adults to protect all children.

HighwayRat-a helpful smile? That's a bit sick

[CarryOnDancing]

Sorry OP-in your position I'd have told the woman she was abusing her child-as she was!

[GarlicAprilShowers]

Love your DD, insanity

[Animation]

No I don't like the "mind your own business" mentality either.

Children are everyone's business!

[Viviennemary]

It isn't illegal to smack children. And I am not entirely against smacking a very naughty child. However, on hliday I did see a child being smacked quite hard by what I presume was a grandma. It did make me feel quite uncomfortable.

[Devora]

CarryOnDancing - absolutely. If our only standard for acceptable behaviour is criminal law, god help us all. As for 'you may make it worse for the child when they get home' - yes, that is a risk. As it is if we intervene to stop a man belting his partner in public. But the bigger risk is everyone turning a blind eye so that abusers know that unless a police officer is on the scene, they can basically get away with whatever they like. It is our collective responsibility to set a shared public standard of acceptable behaviour.

[thebodydoestricks]

I suggest that 98% of British people would intervene if they saw someone being very cruel to a puppy or kitten.

Wonder what the stats are for children.

Jamie Bulger was crying wasn't he?

[levianne]

Uh, sassysally, as others have pointed out, that's not true. Hitting a child is unlawful unless it can be said to be reasonable chastisement. (What is "reasonable" when it comes to whether you would get taken to court would depend on the DPP, if it came to that.)

Also, it used to be legal until quite recently for a man to rape his wife. "Legal" is not the same as "right" or even "effective".

Anyone who doesn't know how to discipline their kids without hitting them needs to learn how to parent. Am I being judgeypants about this? Yes, absolutely.

[FreudiansSlipper]

yanbu

a smack I would not have said anything but what you saw is abusive. using the line well it would have made her more angry and likely to take it out on the child is another way of saying not my business. she may use you as an excuse to be angry with her child but how she handles her anger is her own choice

agree with Laurie it is always our business when we see a child being abused

[GarlicAprilShowers]

You haven't paid much attention to my assertions, SirChenjin, you've just gone off on one.

Can you imagine a childhood free of parental violence?

If you really can't imagine children being raised successfully, with no experience of physical or mental pain from their parents, you might wonder how come you've been unaware of this possibility. It's not a new thing; adults have been doing it forever.

[GarlicAprilShowers]

I suggest that 98% of British people would intervene if they saw someone being very cruel to a puppy or kitten. Wonder what the stats are for children.

Good point, thebody, and a sad one.

[SirChenjin]

'Gone off on one' .

"Anyone who can't envisage a childhood free of parental violence has been harmed"

It is perfectly possible to imagine a childhood with an occasional smack and not be harmed.

[Neonbabyblue]

Coming from a home where smacking was the norm, let me tell you that it is incredibly damaging. A fully grown adult smacking with an open hand is incredibly painful (it happened enough so I remember it very clearly!)

I hate my parents for smacking us, I believe that the smacking contributed directly to my first relationship being a Dv relationship. I thought that if people loved each other, they hit each other if they did something wrong.

I remember my little sister cowering from a teacher who raised her voice because in our house a raised voice was generally followed by a smack. Seeing my little sister like that will stay with me forever.

Yeah I get the fact that parenting is hard. Some days DD is a nightmare. But I've never hit her. I do the grown up thing and count to ten.

When I did child protection training we were told that someone abusing a child is everyone's business. What goes on out in public is often a very toned down version of what's going on behind closed doors at home. There are numerous cases where children have died as a result of abuse and neglect and people have witnessed it happening and yet not reported it because they felt it's "not their business"

[RedandChecker]

I think Garlics asking if you can imagine a childhood with no smack at all? SirChenjin. Not imagine the occasional smack.
I think an occasional smack isn't what the OP was describing though, repeatedly hitting a 2 year old seems harmful and likely not to be a one off, poor kid.

[sassysally]

"Legal" is not the same as "right" or even "effective
No but what is legal is fact, waht is 'right' is your opinion.You can not force other people to share it.
If (for the purposes of example) you thought abortion was not 'right' would you stand outside an abortion clinic ordering patients not to go in?

[levianne]

Sassysally, you seem to be ignoring my first point that the base line is that hitting a child is unlawful. Why am I not surprised?

And no, I wouldn't stand outside an abortion clinic. (I'm pro-choice, but that's not the issue here.) That's a cheap shot for cheap emotional points, and you don't seem to understand that women throughout history have successfully campaigned to change bad laws without being the kind of jerks who harrass women outside clinics. Learn your history.

However, that's not needed here because the law does clearly state that hitting children without a bloody good reason (which doesn't include "I don't know how to parent properly" and/or "I don't know how to relate to small vulnerable people except with violence") is unlawful. If you think that it should be lawful to hit your children whenever you like, for any reason you like, then you should organise a campaign to persuade the law to be changed. If you hit children beyond what a court would determine was "reasonable", then you deserve the consequences.

[Kendodd]

Do you remember that case of cannibalism in Germany a few years ago sassysally as remember the Germany prosecutors struggled to put a case together because they had no laws against it. That's just one example of something that's not 'right' not being against the law.

Also laws change, it was never 'right' imo to beat your wife even if it was legal.

[Kendodd]

I think it's inevitable that the law will change on hitting children soon. I think in the past, hitting children is just what all parents did, we live in more civilised times now though and (mostly) public opinion has changed on this.

It is a little odd when you think about it that the last group in society to be protected from other people hitting them is the most vulnerable group.

[SirChenjin]

So the occasional smack is OK then RedandChecker - is that what Garlic is saying? Only she really isn't making herself clear what she means by 'harm'

[Kendodd]

I read once that one reason the murder rate has fallen in the UK is that it's largely not acceptable to hit children any more and so violence against them has decreased.

It's like I said earlier I think most smacking really doesn't do any harm and to be honest I think it's just rude to insist adults who have been hit as children were/are damaged. But if you ban hitting it's a clear and unambiguous line, parents can no longer justify smacking that DOES damage and courts/parents don't have to.

[RedandChecker]

No SirChenjin I do not believe that is what she is saying from what I've understood from her posts - She has asked you if you can imagine a childhood with no smacking whatsoever and you have repeatedly avoided the question.

[SirChenjin]

No, that's not what she asked - she asked "Can you imagine a childhood free of parental violence?" It was you who said "I think Garlics asking if you can imagine a childhood with no smack at all?"

Now, what exactly is your argument? That all adults who were smacked as children grow up to be damaged, regardless of how often they were smacked, or only those who were smacked regularly?

[Cupid5tunt]

I wonder out of those who smack their children think it would be acceptable for a friend or family member to do it to their child if they were in their care?

[RedandChecker]

Apologies, SirChenjin but free of parental violence to me means free of smacking also as smacking is vioilence. Do you disagree?

I have not said that all adults smacked are damaged