To be getting fed up with this hatred of schools and teachers.

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In another thread (this is not really a thread about a thread) about schools some posters have made it very clear that they hate schools, see teachers as jumped up nazis and feel that everyone is feeling superior and looking down on them.

Am I alone is feeling upset and insulted by this?

I am a teacher and surely we both want the same thing, the best for your child?
We are not the enemy. We are on the same side.

Yes people are idiots when they claim teachers work 9-3:30pm and get 13 weeks to swan around. It clearly demands a lot of unpaid out of hours work, but then so do most jobs above a certain level. It isn't on to expect the respect, status and pay afforded to a professional and then be surprised that it comes with the responsibilities and duties to match.

I do swan around for 13 weeks. You won't find me moaning about my duties. I do think that a 15 hour day is a long one though and suspect that not many others routinely work those hours. I do that precisely because I can leave at 3:30 and do bugger all for 13 weeks.

I often think the problem with the perception of teachers is that everyone has, at some point in their lives, been in a school and watched what teachers do. It's easy isn't it? Get in for nine and leave at three. Make the kids do all the boring stuff and demand respect.

The problem is, that's a child's eye view of the world and many people don't ever grow out of it. I've lost count of the number of people I have encountered who are perfectly intelligent and sensible but when confronted with a teacher revert to the self centred stroppy teenager they were when teachers held power over their lives. They never seem to grow out of the perception of the teacher as the unreasonable baddie who makes them do things they don't want to do, all tinged with the adolescent belief that they are right and the adults don't know anything.

Teaching is a swan job. On the surface it's all calm and effortless. Under the waterline where nobody can see it's frantic paddling just to stay in one place.

My children are nearly at the end of their school years. I've been happy with most of the teachers, delighted by a handful and disgusted by one. Like everything, you can't really generalise.

Exactly LoveCat because complaining is all we can do.

If I'm offered appointment with a certain GP at our surgery I always say sorry is there anyone else. Reception never say anything just look on tbe computer for an alternative.

DD2 can't do this with her German teacher or a supply teacher her class have real problems with. She is stuck with both to the detriment of her education.

Frustratingly the supply teacher isn't even bad, Y10/11 don't want to go back to their normal teacher.

Her group just have a massive personality clash with him, but unlike my uninspiring GP they can't just walk into the HT office and ask for someone else.

Happily, I have never encountered RL teacher bashing. It only seems to happen on MN, which suggests that those MNers who have issues with their DC's schools and teachers are happy to go on about it on here, but don't actually raise it with the schools. Teachers are human. If a student has an issue with my teaching, then I would rather know about it so that it can be fixed.

Part of the issue, IMO, is that, as a PP said, a lot of adults still see schools/teachers through a child's (ie their own) eyes and think that teachers are unapproachable. The perceived bullying/arrogance often isn't there. I find it odd that parents of kids in my Yr 11 tutor group still refer to me as Mrs EvilTwins, when I always introduce myself and sign emails etc with my first name. The relationship between parent and teacher should be one of equals. I don't refer to any other adults with whom I have regular contact by their title and surname, and don't really get why anyone would do it to me. It's an odd thing, the relationship between parents and teachers sometimes, but IME, it doesn't all come from the teacher.

Well Phil lucky you that you get to manage your workload in such a way that you can enjoy your extended holiday period. But 15 hour days really? How does a 15 hour day work?

Do you really routinely arrive at work at 7am and then not leave your place of work until 10pm without having had a break or eaten. If so I take my hat off to you.

'I find it odd that parents of kids in my Yr 11 tutor group still refer to me as Mrs EvilTwins, when I always introduce myself and sign emails etc with my first name. '

That always amuses me, when parents whose children I no longer teach struggle to call me by my first name, even when it's logical to do so. Even when asked to do so.

I think a lot of the problems that teachers (and others) face now is due to the change in attitudes on respect over the years.

Fifty years ago professionals such as teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc were given automatic respect and thought to be superior to the point that ordinary people would never dare question them.

Nowadays everybody thinks they are equals, regardless of education or values and insist that respect must be earned not given because of a title or position. My own experience from working in healthcare is that often those who treat me the most rudely, demandingly and disrespectfully seem to have that attitude to all professionals across the board

I would hate us to go back to those "old days" but, although I agree we earn respect, I do think we need to have more respect for authority figures than we do now, even if just by virtue of their education, achievement, etc. I think there needs to be a happy medium where we should start from a position where a certain amount of respect should be accorded because of being a professional which is then built on or reduced by performance, behaviour, etc.

a certain amount of respect should be accorded because of being a professional
so hang on - if someone has rich enough parents to fund their higher education , we should give them automatic respect on that basis? did I get that right?

Compos, if it's like me, I used to be in work by 7.30am, leave just before 6pm, get home and deal with family til 11pm, sleep til 2am, work til 4.30am and then sleep again until 6.30am.
That's...um...13 hours.
Then I worked a bit at the weekends.
Now I'm supply, I get to most schools by 8am and finish any time between 4pm and 6pm depending on the marking. Then I'm free.

Well Phil lucky you that you get to manage your workload in such a way that you can enjoy your extended holiday period. But 15 hour days really? How does a 15 hour day work?

Do you really routinely arrive at work at 7am and then not leave your place of work until 10pm without having had a break or eaten. If so I take my hat off to you.

I routinely get in at 7am without fail, I have some

Nigella, don't be ridiculous. Higher Education is not about parents being able to afford it - it hasn't been for years. I and many of the teachers I work with are in our late 30s/early 40s, and we still went through university when there were no fees and grants to those with lower incomes.

Everyone deserves respect. IMO, telling children that they should not give respect unless that (adult) earns it is dangerous. Plenty of children simply do not understand that in the same way it is meant - I have had children before now tell me that they are not going to show me any respect because I didn't show them any. Translation - I asked them to take their coat off in the classroom. They felt that wasn't respectful, so told me to fuck off. My fault for not being respectful and therefore they didn't need to show me any respect. An extreme example, I know, but surely as parents we should teach our children to be respectful of everyone.

Do you really routinely arrive at work at 7am and then not leave your place of work until 10pm without having had a break or eaten. If so I take my hat off to you.

An average day is from 7am until 6pm in school. I will then work from 9 until midnight. If I leave at 3:30 I will have to start work at about 7-8 and wil be working beyond midnight.

At busy times I will mark in the morning from 5am until 6am.

I seem to be quite average for where I teach, those who do shorter hours tend to work in the holidays.

I am not moaing about my hours, I am just stating them. I am lucky that there is some flexibility there.

When my exam classes to I will have the luxury of 12 hour days; sometimes I will hit easy street and just do 11!

I do expect children to respect me, I am a teacher and in order for that relationship to work there has to be respect there. However I am always respectful of students. I feel uneasy saying that I earn respect because I expect it from day one with a new class.

oh eviltwins i do agree with you about the 'respect ' thing - some people seem to be using that word with quite a different agenda these days! for example an obnoxious child on the school bus playing his music too loud told the other passengers that they had to 'respect' his wish to play music!! His mother seems to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick in explaining the concept to him!!

knitknack - I don't care if they have a masters or not, though, that is the point. Are they good teachers - do they get on with the children, maximise their potential and instil a love of learning and of the subject, etc? That is what is important. You can have a PHd in maths but if you can't teach my children how to do simultaneous equations or whatever, your Phd is not of interest. I am saying that I have good qualifications but that doesn't make me a good teacher nor would I ever be a good teacher with all the will and teacher training n the world. I just don't have the temperament for it.

I have seen teachers on here saying they deserve better pay/conditions/respect because they have 1st class degrees from good universities and they could earn more doing other jobs but the important thing is not their degree but whether they are good at their job. It is the assumption that they are somehow entitled to respect rather than accepting that they need to earn it through being good teachers that puts people's backs up sometimes.

Tbh, it is only an attitude in teachers I have seen on here - they fall prey to the 'its only the internet, I can say what I like' syndrome as much as those who criticise them, I am sure. The teachers I have met in real life are nothing like that which is probably just as well.

Same, Philo. I've been at my school for a number of years now, and don't generally have any issues with this - I pride myself on my relationship with my students. I've had two new students in Yr 10 this year, and one has been a bit of a toerag. I have to confess I wasn't sure how to deal with it at first because I was so surprised! The other kids in the class also looked at him as if he'd just landed from Mars when he spoke to me in the way that he did. We're fine now though

my parents did not fund my education. i got loans, which i then paid back from my earnings.

i do my job for a lot of reasons- the respect and high esteem of the parents of my students ain't one of them. good thing too, going by this thread.

grin

BigBoobied - I've never seen that attitude on MN (the whole "I've got a first...) thing and I hang out on teacher threads a lot. I'd certainly have waded in if I'd spotted it. I have a 2.1 from a top university and know for a fact that I am amongst the "best" qualified at my school. I would never assume that I am worth more money, though. A good friend and colleague is on SLT and she earns more than me, though I know that her degree isn't as good as mine. She works her socks off (I do too, but I wouldn't do her job for all the money in the world)

I was a teacher, in inner city comprehensives, for twenty years and am now broken and taking early retirement at the end of this academic year.

The level of disrespect/hatred parents have for teachers, and instil into their children, is horrific. It contributes to the disruption in schools which Ofsted now say we must stamp out.

For the person who thinks my parents must be rich because I went to university, no, not the case. I went to university as a single parent from 1988-91, and daughter and I survived on my maintenance from the (sometimes violent, rapist, emotionally abusive, attempted-murdering) ex-husband and a grant - making a total of just under five thousand a year, which wasn't much, even in those days. When I got my teaching post, I hung on for dear life, past the time when my doctor said I should leave because it was killing me, past the time I had a brain haemorrhage, past the time when I could no longer think of myself as anything other than walking dead, past the time when I had hypnotherapy to block out some of the abuse I'd suffered in school (from staff as well as pupils) right up until one last email to whole staff gave us more hoops to jump through and my mind closed down completely.

Teachers are not the enemy. Teachers are normal, nice, hardworking human beings doing their best to survive, and doing their best for their pupils. Going the extra mile. Every day. Every fucking day. To be shat upon by people like you.

And now I'm going to have to name-change again because one of my soon-to-be-former-colleagues found me through a previous post and likes discuss my posts with the team. Nice one D.

Well, I think I am officially the slackest teacher on MN. I do 9 hours in school (and no, no lunch hour. Do people have these? I might have about 30 minutes of sitting with a coffee time in that 9 hours though), and then maybe 2-3 hours at home. Very little in the holidays. I will go in for one day and spend another 2 short days marking, probably.

I am really uncomfortable with the "earn respect" thing. Mutual respect is the absolute cornerstone of an effective classroom.

Sorry Bertha - I was just responding to your point about yourself and your DH out qualifying most staff with your MAs. It was a shock to realise just how common it is now for staff to have MAs, so you wouldn't out qualify the staff at my school! I completely agree with you that it matters little compared to teaching ability!

well i am sorry for your troubles whatnowmylove but what job is worth killing yourself over? more than a whiff of the burning martyr there.

and yes madonna, 'mutual respect' is essential - the key word here is 'mutual'