To have made some friends?

[normaleggy]

I see a lot of posts on here by women worrying about their husband's friendship with other women, most of which are met with several 'yanbu, I'd be pissed off, he's out of order' type comments. Well I'm a single mother (for 2 1/2 years) and I have spent all that time rebuilding my life and confidence and trying to remember the person I was before exh wore me down.

In the last year I've become really good friends with a group of people that I met through some old school friends, and because I have quite 'male' tastes and sense of humour, I get on particularly well with the men in that group. I'm often chatting via text or Facebook messenger with them and there is nothing sexual in it at all just silly jokes and comments. But they are all married and when I was talking to my friend the other day she said she would find that uncomfortable and another agreed with her. But why is that? I don't fancy any of them and even if I did I wouldn't act on it because I'm not that person. We do talk quite late at night sometimes but its still very innocent. As far as I'm concerned they are just very good friends who happen to be blokes, so am I in the wrong for this? It's just harmless isn't it, would you be pissed off?

What the hell is a male sense of humour?

My husband messaging some random female who mostly ignores me in a group setting but laughs and jokes with all the men? I would be very unimpressed by this, and there would be a big discussion going on in my house which would likely end with you no longer having any friendly messages with my husband. It crosses the line for me.

If there is a 'male' sense of humour ergo there must be a 'female' sense of humour. I want to know what a female sense of humour is.

My friends are a mishmash of personalities and my sense of humour is different from a few of them but I am friends with them because we simply get on. They are good people, I like them and they like me. Some are men and some are women.

I have male friends who I am extremely close to, I have never felt the need to chat to them or PM them late at night unless there is a very real emergency. I say that as an insomniac and I am up most nights.

I think there is something off about chatting away with a married man in the dead of the night especially when you make a point of excluding their wives. It is intimate.

No I wouldn't be pleased since dh has a history. I think it's fine to be friends but email and fbook isn't really appropriate. Men are thick sometimes and what you see as innocent is seen as flirting or flattering.

First reaction is it wouldn't bother me.

It would bother me,
if it encompassed certain things.
a)flirting beyond that obviously in clear humour
b)if you had any issue with me and made much more effort with him than with me

I agree on 'those' women who apply themselves as the sort that get on better with men than women and surround themselves with men and snub any 'female' friendships. I'm wary of 'those' but then I'm generalising and some such women are likely genuine. IME a lot of them aren't.

I don't know you,and I repeat upthreads again but every wife is a different person,it will bother some and not others. And some may be projecting e.g don't trust their DH/DP. If an untrustworthy guy is getting messages from a woman and reciprocating, that is dangerous terroritory and such a person may take your attentions the wrong way.

I think there is something off about chatting away with a married man in the dead of the night especially when you make a point of excluding their wives. It is intimate.

^^ this

I am close to some male colleagues and we talk a great deal at work but I would never contact them out of work except about work issues, and even then not late at night.

Hmm. I have male friends who are not really friends with DH, DH has female friends who are not really friends with me. Most of them are friends from before we met and we don't live near them. We text and email these friends. It doesn't bother either of us at all.

I have made an effort, as my friends have gotten married/found long-term partners, to be friendly to those partners when I see them, sometimes comment on their Facebook posts, etc. -- I don't want them to feel excluded from my long special special friendships with their partners, as I think that's just a bit rude. I do think if we all lived in the same place there would be more mixing, if you see what I mean.

So I think you might want to make some extra effort to become a little closer to the women in the group. It doesn't sound to me like you're doing anything wrong, but as you'll have seen in the thread people's boundaries and comfort zones vary, and the simplest and most politically astute thing to do would simply to make a few individual efforts with some of the women. You don't have to stop talking to the men or make a big show of sudden interest in the women, but if you make a little more effort with the women, you are most likely to avoid worrying anyone. Of course it's not your job to prevent people from worrying, but that's not really the point.

I'm not too keen on the "guy's girl" thing either, in general. My sister was a bit of a guy's girl when she was younger, and she is not a flirt, not competitive with other women, healthy self-esteem, etc., and she isn't trying to be cooler than other women or anything like that -- she just tended to get along better with guys. So I know women who get along better with men are not always motivated by competitiveness or insecurity. But a lot of guy's girls are in fact motivated by those things, and it's not much fun for the other women in a group if one woman is making a point of being a guy's girl. To make sure things stay easy and fun within your group, I think you might want to try to make sure it doesn't look like you're making a point of being a guy's girl. Easiest way to do that is to spread your attention around a little.

I agree about the "man's woman" thing.

I am not at all suggesting you're like this, OP, but a lot of them women I've known personally who didn't like other women tended to be...well, they just love being the only woman in the center of a bunch of men, love being the "cool" girl. Iyswim.

Yanbu. When I got married it changed (and strengthened) my relationship with my husband, it didn't change his relationship with his friends. I'm really surprised and disappointed by how many people think that by virtue of being single and female you are not a suitable friend for their spouse. And why shouldn't you FB or chat late at night, I do with my friends, my husband does with his. It's normal, I thought.

I also don't see your 'male tastes' comment as an indication that you're a brazen hussey. My interests of beer, sport and politics will normally see me gravitate to join the blokes conversation in the pub. It has nothing to do with wanting to be 'cool'. Men are cooler that women? Who knew.

Ok, some interesting comments, thanks for your thoughts.

Firstly, I'm not someone who is only friends with men, I have plenty of close female friends, but in this particular group I seem to get on better with the men. A lot of you say you are wary of those kind of women, but what makes you wary? Is there an element of jealousy in there?

Secondly I do not go out of my way to avoid the women in the group, we all went to a party a few weeks ago and the women and men seemed to divide off in to two groups and I spent time with both groups. However whilst the men were chatting freely and having a laugh, the women were making little more than small talk or talking about kids and I'd gone on a rare night out without the kids, I didn't particularly want to spend all evening discussing sleeping patterns and school applications. I do get on with them all but we don't really speak much outside of the social occasions. Except for the two who I went to school with.

Thirdly - male tastes. I like football and go to matches with some of the men in this group - their wives choose not to go and that's up to them. I realise this isn't exclusively male but it is predominantly. Other things like the music and tv shows I like seem to fit in more with the men in the group, so ok maybe 'male tastes' wasn't the right phrase but that's how it seems in this group. I'm not motivated by 'competitiveness' or 'insecurity' I just like those things.

But it seems the general opinion is that it's not acceptable, so yes, I am being unreasonable to make friends then. Oh well.

jammie - exactly, I was once applauded on here for getting away from my EA husband yet now I feel I should be excluded for being a single woman. I didn't realise there was still such a divide between the sexes, how very sad.

It's different though isn't it being friends with a man than a woman. If for example I was to spend a lot of time with a man who shares say, my hobby, even if you have no romantic feelings at all over time feelings may develops and we may get so close that an EA develops without us even noticing it and then who knows where it will end up. But if I was friends with a woman those kind of feelings would never happen because I am not that way inclined.
So even if you are a saint, and so is he, those feelings can happen and unexpectedly and that is probably why a lot of women won't like it, myself included but I would be just jealous of the time you are spending together, texting & emailing, because I feel that my dh's mind should be centred on me, at all times

Don't forget not everyone is trustworthy and some men & women have an agenda when forming a friendship with the opposite sex!

Of course you can be friends with men, I used to have lots of male friends and only a few of them tried it on with me just remember that even though you can control yourself they might not be able to.

norma no, for me it was not jealousy. It was again the fact (quoting myself) that it's not much fun for the other women in a group if one woman is making a point of being a guy's girl. Making a point is not the same as simply getting along well with the guys, sincerely -- it's showing off, competitive coolness. Tbh. I haven't actually seen this kind of thing since college, it's something I imagined (perhaps mistakenly) that most women grow out of since I think the show-offy I'm-the-coolest-girl stance comes out of the kind of dating-related competitiveness and the kind of sexual insecurity that belong particularly to one's twenties.

I don't think the thread consensus is that you're BU.

But as I said I think you could make a couple of minor & painless adjustments to your behavior that would allow you to keep your male friends and prevent any possible discomfort on their wives' part.

And what is my behaviour? Where did I say I was showing off to impress them? So I should have grown out of talking to men and only talk about dull stuff with women purely to pander to their insecurities?

I don't think YABU as such don't get me wrong, I'm thinking that even if your intentions are honest there may be an element of flattery that these men feel which keeps them making the effort with you. You say that the women talk about sleep and school applications which is boring but that sounds very much like you just aren't putting in the effort with the women as much as you do with the men. If they're feeling insecure or struggling a bit then it's obvious that they would keep the conversation to mundane things. If you truly wanted these women as friends then you'd be investing a bit more than flitting between groups all night, invite one or two of them out for coffee. I know I'm not great in night out situations but much better at the daytime chat. It also depends on the dynamic of the group, if the women are thrown together because their husbands are friends then maybe they don't have that much in common.

I don't like the insinuation that I'm jealous because I'm wary of women who 'only' have make friends or who get on 'better' with men. It annoys me because I don't think gender is an important factor in friendships and women who make it an issue tend to be the ones who have ulterior motives. Yes, I'd be annoyed if another woman was going to events and nights out with my husband if it was something that I would enjoy with him and there is a fine line between a friendship and an emotional investment that is inappropriate. I shouldn't have to share my husband, that's not jealousy. If he wanted to spread his time about with different women then he wouldn't have chosen to get married.

Ha, your last post says it all really. If you don't like the women then leave the friendship group! I don't understand why you're there at all really if you find 50% of them dull.

norma I think you misunderstood me. I was not saying you're showing off at all -- I was saying that for me, that's where past dislike of archetypal guy's girl came from (the showing off and the need to compete with other women who don't actually want to compete). Not from jealousy.

Re: your behavior: I don't think there's anything wrong with it. It sounded to me like you were socializing with these friends completely sincerely, i.e., based entirely on what you enjoy and what they enjoy, with no other motive. Nothing wrong with that.

I suggested that if you are concerned that the wives of some of these guys might get worried, as your friends suggested, you could probably head that off pretty easily. Your behavior doesn't obligate you to do that. But it might be a smart preventive move.

My XH was very suspicious of male friends and even went so far as to email one and warn him to "keep away from my wife".

One of his work colleague's wife had a male friend whom she used to go and stay with for weekends etc. When I asked XH why that friendship was acceptable, he said yes cos the male friend was gay!!

It all got too much for me and his insecurity and jealousy of a non-existent situation eventualloy drove us apart.

Jammie never discussed beer with anyone and don't know any men who discuss beer. None of my friends are much into sport but if it's discussed at all it's not by one gender but politics-really? That's a man's issue?
I've said I have no problem with husband seeing female friends on his own which he does. The late night chatting however sounds a bit try too hard and tbh a bit juvenile.

I do wonder however if you and the OP have fallen into some sort of time -warp where men talk about politics and music and women talk about sleeping patterns and school applications. Very odd.

I would mind if my dh was messaging/chatting to another woman..

I can't stand when people respond to that reaction by saying...' Oh, you don't trust him then' or 'you can't have a strong relationship if you feel like that.'

I know many women who have trusted their partner completely and been stung.

But back to the op, I'd say tread carefully. Even if you are completely innocent, you may get their wives backs up.

I'm not jealous of other women at all,I'm not jealous of anybody!I feel that I'm a very privileged person,and I know how much jealousy hurts, I have been on the recieving end of it many times.

As I said it would bother me for the reasons I stated and none other,because I would think there were other intentions there. And in that case, It's uncouth and unsavory behaviour in my opinion.

And I'm not saying you are like this, I was giving examples of the only situations in which the late night messaging would concern me. If I trusted my partner, it wouldn't be a massive deal, but it wouldn't be appreciated either.

Another issue which others have touched on is that even if your intentions are innocent, depending on the man and his past experiences, they may not see it as such.

If you was up late messaging my husband I would find you annoying and clingy to be honest. This is a new friend group you find the women boring but cling to the men.

Then again I wouldn't worry about your stealing my husband as we would more than likely be having a good laugh at the poor girl who clings to men and think she is really one of the "lads" when they merely tolerate her and feel sorry for her not having many friends.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I've seen it with the girls that ignore the other females and cannot shut up to the men, they where soon cut out of the group by all apart from those who wanted in her pants for a one time thing.

My DH is very friendly with a lady from work. I was ok with this, but when her texts (all friendly, work type stuff) popped up a few times every night I had to say something (I think it was while we had dinner together and his phone pinged 3 times while we ate). I think I'd have been miffed if it had been a bloke too though!

I don't think you should suggest that those who are uncomfortable with it are jealous OP. To be honest that does make you sound like one of those 'guy's girls' although I understand that you are not.

You've asked if people would be pissed off and about half have said they would.

I would be concerned if my DH was spending a prolonged amount of time messaging a woman late at night who clearly preferred talking to him and his friends rather than to the other women at social engagements. It would of course depend a lot on how she acted when we were all together though and you say these women have no cause for concern and are not concerned so presumably all is fine.

Nope, still wouldn't like it.
I'm not jealous or insecure I just don't like it. However OP this is me personally if the wives of the men you are friends with don't have a problem with it at all then you aren't being unreasonable