Question about gender change

[lougle]

If someone is making a transition to one gender from another, what does their sexuality relate to - their original gender, or their new one?

For instance, if a man is transitioning to become a woman, and is attracted to women, would that make them 'straight' or 'gay'?

If a woman is transitioning to become a man, and is attracted to women, would he then be 'straight' or 'gay'?

I'm likely to have to explain 'gender change' to my children, but it occurred to me that I really don't understand the 'gender' part of it at all.

I understand the physical processes and the medical timeline, etc. (ie. live as new gender for x period, medication, initial reassignment surgery, final reassignment surgery), but I don't understand how someone who has had gender reassignment would identify their sexuality.

I hope I haven't offended anyone - I may not have used the right terminology and may have been clumsy in the way I've asked the question.

Kim, you know I am not Trans. But I have talked to a lot of Trans people and some people who have detransitioned and read a lot. You can talk about what you feel as a Trans person from first hand experience. We both talk about others who often feel different things to both of us.

And I think an intelligent pro feminist man is perfectly capable of explaining what feminism is and the different beliefs amongst feminists.

What does that mean, pro Trans? Or a supporter of Trans people? Which Trans people?

Kim I am a radical feminist. Of course Trans gender people should have rights and be treated fairly. And of course some people feel unhappiness that is called gender dysphoria.

The choices you have posted above IMO lack any nuance at all.

There are I think a variety of reasons why individuals have feelings and experiences that are interpreted as transgender. Those feelings and experiences are real. And those individuals need support and help.

I do think without patriarchy transgender identity would not exist, as it is socially constructed. I also think without patriarchy, lesbian and gay identity would not exist. Thta does not mean individuals would not have any body dysphoria, although I think it would be less common. And some people would only partner with same sex partners. But the identities themselves are socially constructed.

And of course individuals are living under patriarchy. So I am a lesbian. I take on that identity even though I think it only exists as an identity because of patriarchy.

So recognising that Transgender as an identity is socially constructed, is not about blaming Trans people.

Everyone has the right to be treated fairly.
I think our society is still intolerant of any perceived differences especially where gender and sexuality are concerned.

I wonder if being trans means you are more likely to be in a same sex relationship die to the nature of who you are friends with/being party of gay community

The trans individual in my life would baulk at the thought of being part of 'the gay community!'

Grennie lots would disagree with you about Trans being socially constructed.

My personal take is that Transgender IS socially constructed and Transexual is biological. Have you seen the Hypothalamus research?

Kim I'm not sure why you are feeling the need to interrogate Grennie it seems like she has pushed some buttons for you.

Is there any particular aspect of this thread you are frustrated with?

So really you think it's a social construct whereas trans people think it's got a biological cause?

I personally think it's different for different people. This is why people who are transSEXUAL really dont want to identify under the same umbrella as people who are transGENDER.

In terms of equality and respect, many trans people are living everyday lives as the males/females that they are and no one would even know that they are transsexual. It's a moot point really because if you are reassigning your gender due to dysphoria then you dont IDENTIFY as transexual, you identify as just male or female just like everyone else. The iffy bit during the transition where a person may or may not pass is the bit that can leave people open to abuse. The Equalities Act 2010 protects people from abuse.

Sexuality, whether you are gay straight, bi, pan sexual or whatever is a completely and totally separate issue. If it isn't it is because the Transgender issue is being fetishised in some way.

I'm grateful to everyone who has posted thoughtful and informative posts without hostility over differing opinions. It's been very informative for me.

Kim, I think the difference between men talking about women's rights compared to people who are not trans talking about trans rights is that half the world is female while very few people are transgender.

Women are able to represent themselves in many situations. Transgender people can't do that to the same extent because there are not as numerous. That means if transgender issues are going to be discussed, a lot of that will have to be done by people who are not trans. And everyone of them will have an agenda! Some of their agendas will align with those of the majority of trans people and some will not. But they will all have an agenda that is not primarily about trans people.

You can see the same thing with gay rights. It gets far more support from women who are not gay than men who are not gay, because the women indirectly benefit from it so it suits their own agenda of how they want society to be.

Kim - Not all Trans people believe transgender has a biological cause. There is actually a diversity of opinion.

Kim, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And as I am sure you know, there is a natural tendency to have friends who we agree with on issues that are important to us.

Well - none of my trans friends would agree with you. But what do they know?

Kim, most of mine are very much of the same view as you. (That Trans (for them) is a medical condition)

I am sharing a mixed view and presenting the opinion that it is actually necessary to separate transexual discourse from the dominant transgender discourse. BECAUSE the degree of psychological trauma and dysphoria that is experiences when a Male 2 Female transaxual is sharing a support forum with someone who is choosing to identify as male but giving hormones a rest so they can get pregnant is insurmountable.

Kim I am sure you don't agree with all Trans people, just as I don't agree with all radical feminists. Maybe better to actually respond to my views, rather than the views of others?

I also agree that the radical feminist view of trans people as some how the maLADAPTIVE outcome of patriarchy is discriminatory and akin to the born again christian view of homosexuality. Sorry grennie

No need to apologise. I think everyone is entitled to their own view. Although I actually think there would still be a small number of people who had these feelings without patriarchy. My position is much more nuanced than you suggest.

How is this argument helpful to the OP, or to any other parent who wants to explain it to their child in simple terms?

One of the reasons that people don't explain it to kids is because it is so difficult to explain something when people don't agree on terms, there are so many different trans identities and people argue over those and so on.

Which is why for kids a simple explanation makes sense.