To think that the vast majority of people can't afford or won't buy 7 portions of fruit and veg a day

[LaurieFairyCake]

After listening to the debate on radio 5 yesterday Richard Bacon was making the point that it was easy as the portions were small.

No, they're really, really not!

I've just looked at the Daily Mail run down of how much you have to eat and I think it's actually prohibitive financially.

2 nectarines,
3 heaped tablespoons of sweetcorn,
Quarter of a big broccoli or cauliflower,
3 heaped tablespoons of mangetout
7 spears of asparagus
Half a pepper

All one portion

Seriously no one can afford that. In Aldi it's only 4 spears in a portion to buy for 79p so I need £1.60 to buy one portion of asparagus - obviously I wouldn't as I'm not an eejit.

Eating seasonally not so easy either as you can only get your nutrition from one thing twice in a day. So only two apples.

I reckon shopping in Aldi I'm going to need to spend about £8 a day for a family of 3 adult eaters for fruit and veg. So that's £56 a week just on fruit and veg.

Ds2 used to be really funny about fruit. I got him to eat it by introducing it in dessert form and it's taken a while but he now loves it.

So i'd do bowls of various fruit and then dump a load of whipped cream/ice cream/yoghurt/nutella on.

I do have a sweet fiend though. He'd probably eat a lump of coal if it was covered in nutella

It was frozen fruit and tinned fruit that they put together.

I don't think many here are saying they cant think how to get 5/7 portions per day into themselves or their family - we're saying we cant afford it.

"80g of salad is a huge amount about 1/2 a lettuce, a whole pepper each, 7 cherry tomaties or 2 very large ones"

rubbish. I've just been to weigh some cherry tomatoes, 6 cherry tomatoes is equal to one portion of 80g veg.

Oh i defo do the padding! I use about 100g of raw meat per person. So a chilli would be 400g of mince, 2 carrots, 2 celery, 2 onions, 2 handfuls of red lentils, 1 tin of kidney beans (possibly 2) 1-2 green peppers. That does 2 meals served with rice and brown pittas or a baked pot/sweet pot.

But we do also use cheaper meat so a 79p pack of sausages on special from lidl will do a toad in the hole (DH will eat 4-5 sausages and i eat 3) served with veg. Or £1.79 for 2 gammon steaks served with egg fried rice (with onion/celery/carrot/frozen peas - my only concession to frozen veg) or served with a fried egg, baked wedges & veg.

God yes the waste is horrendous. We gave up having a veg box because DD and DP are so fussy, they wouldn't eat half of it and I would have to cook the unpopular veg and something different at every meal, of course resulting in a lot of it getting thrown as I work and just don't have time for that.

We follow the advice to get DD to try some of all the things she hates (most fruit and veg) but the result of that is more waste as she will only take a tiny nibble. I dread to think how many "a day" she gets, probably something like 1.5 however hard I try :(

Also it is lovely to think your are supporting your local organic farm and getting it direct and cheaper (though again, not particularly cheap at all in fact) but sometimes I used to cry when faced with yet another mound of mud-caked veg to spend ages sorting out and processing.

I pay for supermarket veg (including frozen and tinned) because I don't have time for all that preparation, and I'm sure it's the same for a lot of us.

Frozen fruit and veg are fine, this study will have done a major DISSERVICE if they take an unfair knocking due to poor reporting.

So how many portions does that chilli work out at? It doesn't look to me to have that much veg per portion if lasting 2 meals. I use less meat than you and plenty of veg but when I work out how much veg per person it's only 2 portions at most.

In season vegetables are cheaper than meat. Part of the issue here is that people have been filling up with potatoes and pasta (admittedly cheaper than veg) alongside their meat rather than using vegetables - so don't have "room" for the veg.

I've been Boot Camping (Low Carb, High Fat) which means I don't have much fruit except for berries and no fruit juices (that's been my biggest change: I used not to function until I'd had my morning glass of OJ). Yet I still manage to reach the 5 portions easily and cheaply.

Today for example, I'll be having/have had a few blueberries or strawberries (whichever is cheaper in Lidl) in my Greek Yoghurt for breakfast, snacking on left over broccoli spears/sugar snap peas/carrots (left over from the M&S Mothers' Day meal deal), lunch will include a massive portion of home made coleslaw (cabbage, carrot and spring onions) and supper will include a broth made with neeps, celeriac, carrots, cabbage and leeks. I'll also probably have a few more strawberries as I'd bought some in for last weekend and haven't had them yet.

Tomorrow I'll be having meatballs in tomato sauce on a bed of courgette "tagliatelle".

Cooking a tray of roasted root veg (parsnips, carrots, neeps, celeriac and with some chunks of courgette chucked in towards the end) for the family does not cost much and can in itself probably get you to the 5 a day - before even counting what you have in other meals.

Now, getting veg into ds is another matter but at least he likes the soup and the meatballs in tomato sauce

I think quality is better than quanity.
A bagged salad might be worst than no salad/veg at all as it contains chemicals in order to stay fresh in the bag for days.
Also you cant compare cucumber with spinach or broccoli.
I have the opposite problem than many. In this house fruit and veg wont last one day! So i have to buy the cheaper options. Can i ask which supermarket do you get reduced fruit and veg? Mine dont seem to do this.

Honestly, though? I'm a trained dietician and there are days I don't eat 7 portions (although on average, over a week I probably do, just).

No-one's going to take your kids away if you don't achieve it, but it's an "ideal", a target to aim for, just like knowing the healthy weight for your height, or how many units of alcohol a week is a healthy limit...

Soul - Well i would reckon with the tinned toms and beans/lentils it is probably 2-3 portions depending on whether i can stretch to 2 large peppers. That's kind of my point - it isn't enough but it's all i can manage.

why is OP stating people cant afford this? we live in one of the worlds richect countries

Seriously no one can afford that

I am not denying we have poverty in the UK, but OPs blanket assumption this is beyond the means of people is just not true

people spend that equivalant on bloody starbucks in my office

I have just been to the allotment and here's a good example of something in season, home grown, and looks masses - I think there's 7 portions of veg and I'm guessing that it would cost £8 in a shop. Purple sprouting broccoli.

That's 4 full grown plants worth there, and probably cost about £3 (not from seed), time spent growing them a few hours so not feasible for most folk plus 7 months in the ground. That's all my broccoli for the year, they take up a lot of room and I estimate if I just made broccoli the veg source I'd need an acre to do us for the year. Just in broccoli - they take up a lot of room.

We might live in one of the worlds richest countries but we also have food banks. I think it's quite possible that some people may not be able to reach the 5 a day (government recommendation still) target due to budget reasons.
However I think more could they just don't want to.

i do agree fromparis to a certain extent. People do prioritise other things. We allocate £200 a month for food and toiletries and nappies etc. We earn plenty, by todays standards, yet have a very high rent/council tax and fares. We are saving to buy a house. Yes we could allocate more money to food, but something else would have to give. And while we are still seemingly healthy despite it, we wont. Altho i do buy better food for DS.

Laurie - do you freeze broccolli? I've never tried but often have left over which I could bung in freezer rather than throw.

See my meals today go like this

Egg & Mushroom breakfast (0.5 portion)

Salad for lunch ( spinach/rocket, cucumber, pepper, cottage cheese, ham ) but probably only works out 2 portions max as 50g spinach, and half a pepper

Bolognese with courgette spaghetti (coeliac so only option) = 2 portions

Still well short of 7 and on a day when I don't eat salad for lunch likely to be less. Meat and veg type meals only work out as 2 portions of veg even if 3 types going by recommended portion sizes.

I think one of the major points I'm trying to make is that it's not feasible to reproduce mass veg growing techniques at home, it's only ever going to be a supplement - mass farming techniques are of course more efficient.

Growing brassicas is not worth it cost wise though of course they taste better

How do you make courgette spagetti?

Souljacker you're doing well. If you added a fruit for dessert at each of those meals it'd be perfect

We might live in one of the worlds richest countries but we also have food banks

Yes I know that. But I dont like people saying this is impossible due to poverty, as the simple fact is a critical mass of people CAN manage and afford this. People CHOOSE not to, people choose to spend money of other pleasures. what I spent on my coffee today would have got me a bropccoli and a sweet potato to steam for my lunch

and frankly , so too can some lower income people.

I use bagged/pre-prepared salad a lot - again because of time constraints and also it's cheaper than buying 5 different types of salad veg and then not being organised enough to use them all up properly in time. I'm not convinced it's devoid of nutrition, especially if you get it as fresh as possible (I always look for the ones with the best dates and use them asap). I would be interested to see the evidence on this because I definitely rely on it for getting my own 5/7.

Laurie - we only grow what costs the most and takes less effort. So max results for little required.
We only have a roof terrace as in a flat. It's an ok size but not acres so can't grow everything. We have x2 blueberry bushes/ trees in large pots. A dwarf cherry tree and dwarf apricot tree also both in pots. About 8 raspberry canes leaning against one wall. X2 strawberry pots with 10 plants in each. Plus variety of herbs which are mainly grown inside in kitchen

No way can we grow all our food, and that's not the aim. But it does show that virtually everyone could grow something in contribution to their food. Those few well selected plants we have have taken a few years to collect, and they all grow again each year so no need to replace and cost lots. They provide lots of berries and fruits each summer for 2-3 months. Ie we prob grow the equivalent of 50+ punnet of blueberries. When we move we can take them with us as in pots.

The main part of my lunch yesterday was half a carton of New Covent Garden 'skinny soup' - which is 2 portions of veg per serving. On offer for £1 (they often are) - so 25p per portion of ready-cooked veg, and very nice it was too. (and unlike most bought soups its not that salty).

I think there's 7 portions of veg and I'm guessing that it would cost £8 in a shop. Purple sprouting broccoli.
PSB is usually an 'extra special' veg, but it isn't over a pound a portion. Generally available on a 2-for-£3 - 75p per 80g I make it. But I'd never eat that much at one go - I'd have eg 40g of that and 40g of some cheaper greens. Same sort of thing with asparagus.