To think that the vast majority of people can't afford or won't buy 7 portions of fruit and veg a day

[LaurieFairyCake]

After listening to the debate on radio 5 yesterday Richard Bacon was making the point that it was easy as the portions were small.

No, they're really, really not!

I've just looked at the Daily Mail run down of how much you have to eat and I think it's actually prohibitive financially.

2 nectarines,
3 heaped tablespoons of sweetcorn,
Quarter of a big broccoli or cauliflower,
3 heaped tablespoons of mangetout
7 spears of asparagus
Half a pepper

All one portion

Seriously no one can afford that. In Aldi it's only 4 spears in a portion to buy for 79p so I need £1.60 to buy one portion of asparagus - obviously I wouldn't as I'm not an eejit.

Eating seasonally not so easy either as you can only get your nutrition from one thing twice in a day. So only two apples.

I reckon shopping in Aldi I'm going to need to spend about £8 a day for a family of 3 adult eaters for fruit and veg. So that's £56 a week just on fruit and veg.

Fruit isn't supposed to be as beneficial as veg.

Who is going to eat a whole parsnip for one portion?

Me.

Fecking love them.

Have also been known to eat and entire swede in one sitting.

It is well cheap if you go to the green grocers, just as meat is better and cheaper from the butchers.
I try and go at closing time and get the reduced stuff.
If you don't have one near you its beneficial to drive to one. a friend of mine comes over for coffee, visits the butcher and green grocer, has a coffee, kids play, nice social as well.

You can buy reduced fruit and veg for pennies in supermarkets at the end of the day and then you can make it into soups and smoothies to freeze for the days that you don't get reduced fruit and veg. That's probably how I will manage it. I'm also going to start growing my own veg. You can also look out for cheap fruit and veg that is in season or on offer, it doesn't have to be asparagus! I don't see how they can say frozen veg doesn't count, I thought freezing locked in most of the nutrients. I do understand there are cost considerations but I think that 7 portions of fruit and veg a day is a healthy standard to aim for if possible.

They really need to subsidise fruit and veg, reward supermarkets for promoting it, and heavily tax the junk food and sugary snacks. Yes people will start bleating about nanny state etc. but we already have this for alcohol and fags.

You need to be able to walk into a shop and feel they are helping you walk out with lots of healthy fruit and veg. For example having a cheap fruit and veg section where they have the bananas, carrots, swede, cabbage etc on one big stand with easy how-to-cook cards and meal ideas. Same for things like tinned pulses and frozen veg (if it counts, I really can't see why it shouldn't).

Also veg should be developed as a snack. I actually love it, I make extra veg, chill it and have it the next day when I want a snack (eg carrots, broccoli, sprouts) and it's really nice. But you can't get that when you're out and about. I bet someone could apply the right marketing and make a success of it.

Goodness I disagree.

Protein at every meal is a good way to keep blood sugar stable, but it doesn't need to be in the quantities many people seem to think - a whole steak or chop or whatever at each meal is too much. One egg or an equivalent sized piece of meat or fish is plenty.

Also, it maybe wasn't clear from my post, but many vegetables, (e.g. broccoli, peas) actually contain more protein than meat, if you look at it on a protein per calorie basis. If we get fewer calories from meat at each meal, we can eat a much larger helping of veg for a similar (or even lower) cost, with the same overall intake of protein and a much greater intake of vitamins, antioxidants etc.

The articles published don't make this very clear, which is a shame.

Just a quick look at a leek soup recipe to serve 8

1 carrot
1 onion
2 sticks celery
4 leeks

So 7/8 'portions' of veg in a soup to feed 8 people.

I think the way it's been reported is very unhelpful: those who were struggling to get 5 a day are likely to think "7 a day now? Oh sod it" and just give up (tbh that's the impression I'm getting from some of the comments here too).

I don't think it should be that difficult, particularly if you have the 5 veg plus 2 fruit rule and accept that lunch and tea should be mostly veg. For a lot of people, though, that would be a big change in eating habits, and fussy eaters (adults or children) might find it hard. But if you are eating veg instead of rather than in addition to carbs and meat, then it shouldn't be more expensive.

I wish food was cheaper from our local independent butchers and grocers but it's not! A canny supermarket shop (taking advantage of the 3 for 2s, coupons and bogofs) is MUCH cheaper, and that includes buying free-range/organic meat and eggs.

I nearly fainted at the price when I went to the local butcher.

Do you actually find fruit and salad and veg filling then? Because we don't, no where near as filling as it's carb/meat equivalent. We would be hungry if we replaced rather than added the fruit/veg. I need 2400 cals a day and DH needs 3300 and DS needs about 1400. We can't get that from fruit and veg.

Also how big are your houses/store cupboards? and do you shop weekly? If so for 4 of you that would be 28 large apples (not those nice little cox you get). 28 Large oranges. 28 Bananas. How big is your fruit bowl?!

I thought veg protein wasn't good on it's own because it doesn't contain all the amino acids that meat protein does? Going from memory when I was veggie as a teen.

Soul that recipe will only count as approx. 1or 2 portion of veg per person as there is not enough of each veg to give each person a portion of it.

My DC will eat veg but I struggle to get them eating much fruit. We just about manage 5 (portion size questionable) but no way will they eat 7.

To the poster above whose child ate a banana for breakfast, then an apple and had pineappple and icecream for tea, thats great that your dc eats that, but would be impossible for me. I would be able to insist they ate one - which I do - but eating would become a battleground if i insisted they ate more. We are told not to make food an issue. Even more eating disorders in the future, anyone?

Yes, that's my point. But people are talking about getting their veg in soups and stews when the reality is per portion of finished product there's only really 1 or 2 portions of veg per person.

So veg vs protein isn't the issue. It's veg vs cheap carbs

Seconding this. It's immensely easy to eat lots of parsnips in a roast if you are replacing not adding to mounds of roast potatoes and Yorkshire puddings. Don't add cauliflower to curry (making a ginormous meal), use the cauliflower to make a rice replacement.

And as a veggie, I am obligated to note that replacing minced meat with lentils is another easy portion added.

cucumber, lettuce, half a pepper, carrot, broccoli, peas plus veg in shepherds pie- that's a whole cucumber, a whole lettuce, most of a bag of carrots, a whole broccoli between four people.That is not going to cost less than say £5/6 for a day

It's not quite that much - i'd say more like £4 a day. I buy the cheap, cheap frozen peas, huge bags of carrots for £1 which last all week etc. A huge bag of bananas for £2, 12 apples for £1.60.

I don't do 'fancy' meals I couldn't if I tried. I don't buy a lot of processed treats, we eat moderate amount of meat, I buy cheap pasta, rice and cereal (never notice the difference to the expensive ones).

So £4 a day sounds a lot - but that is a huge, huge portion of our total spend iyswim? I probably spend £15 a week on meat to go with the main meal. Lunch time protein is tinned sardines(30p a tin - a favourite), tinned tuna, cheese, eggs - all cheap enough.

Lots of the meals I make are huge too - so yesterdays shepherds pie fed us all one meal and there was enough for a freezer portion just for the two kids.

I think I probably spend £60 a week on average on food for two adults, 1 3 year old and a 6 year old who (I kid you not) is currently putting away an adult portion at every meal.

Koala, have you seen the size of an equivalent (in terms of calories/protein) portion of broccoli to a steak? You wouldn't be hungry after a huge plateful like that, I'm sure.

I think it may take some getting used to if your current eating habits are very different, but it can be done gradually.

When I make fajitas, for example, I put a tiny bit of meat in and loads of peppers and onions. None of my family members has ever remarked on it. Same with bolognese - a small amount of beef mince and then pad it out with lentils (which have a similar texture when simmered). I also add steamed and blended (peeled) aubergines to pad out a sauce. There are plenty of ways to add more vegetables to your diet (and eat less meat) without force-feeding your family a plate of lettuce at every meal

80g of salad is a huge amount about 1/2 a lettuce, a whole pepper each, 7 cherry tomaties or 2 very large ones , a2 lettuce leaves on a sandwich and a slice of pepper and 1 sliced tomato would be 1/4 of a portion all together

3 heaped tablespoons of peas is quite a lot about 1/4 plate

if you make shepherds pie with 2 onions 2 carrots and a tin of tomatoes and serve 4 that is 1.5 portions of veg each

7 is certainly doable

but cheapest I reckon is a least 80p per person per day

1 banana (7 for £1) 14p
1 apple/pear ( 6 for £10 16p
1 portion economy baked beans 7p
1 portion carrots (75p for 1 kg) 6p bag would be 12.5 80g portions
1 portion frozen peas (£1 for 1kg) 8p
30g raisins ( £2 for 500g) 12p
200ml fruit juice (concentrated) ( 80p for 1litre) 16p

similarly priced options would be lentils, cabbage, onions, dried pulses

total for 1 person 79p

2 adults and 2 children is 28 portions a week that is £22.12

that is more than half some peoples weekly food budget and there is no milk bread rice potatoes etc

this is the real cheapest the economy baked beans will have sugar and too much salt; the concentrated cheap juice will not be optimal salad would be too expensive as lettuces are at least 50p so portion would be 25p peppers are 3 for £1 so 33p a portion, cherry tomatoes are £1 for a 300g punnet but 7 each would be 25p again, an average broccoli head for £1 would only be 4 portions, satsumas are 2 per portion so again too much berries are extortionate, and forget more exotic stuff

I was going to say about the 'filling up' thing.

DH has a physical job and will eat what ever i give him, but if i served up a plate of salad and veg for his dinner or a bowl of soup and some pita bread he'd probably have to sit and eat his way through a loaf of bread during the evening to stave off the hunger!

then there'd be no bread for his sarnies by the end of the week

I long long ago said sod it.

It's not expense so much as waste.

DDs change their minds every 5minutes about oranges and bananas, they won't eat grapes or apples unless they are absolutely perfect. DD2 won't eat any veg except carrots and sweet corn.

DH buys posh fruit and wastes it.

It all drives me barmy.

I read about this in The Independent on Monday.

They said that the reason frozen fruit and veg wasn't included in the 7 a day target is because groups eating more of those kinds of foods had worse health outcomes than others. They conceded this was likely to be because those eating frozen and tinned items were more likely to be poor, and therefore have poorer health outcomes anyway. This study couldn't differentiate. I don't think it was saying that frozen and tinned fruit/veg aren't worthwhile, but that this study couldn't show that they were as good. That doesn't mean they are worse.

I agree with PPs who say food is expensive anyway. Eat less but eat better - and piles of asparagus isn't the cheap way to do it!

And carbs are not evil! Refined, processed carbs are, but whole grains, pulses, seeds etc (yes, kinoa, I know) are an essential part of our diet, and a major source of fibre!

Can someone explain what is wrong with frozen vegetables?! We always have mixed veg in the freezer to eat.

In regard to the frozen element the report itself included this VERY PERTINENT BUT DISREGARDED BY BLOODY JOURNALISTS POINTS

1. Nutritionally, frozen fruit is generally held to be equivalent to fresh fruit.
2. Because of the questions asked, consumption of canned fruit cannot be distinguished from frozen fruit.
3. They didn't allow for factors sometimes associated with consumption of frozen and canned fruit, such as socio-economic deprivation and chronic ill-health

Frozen fruit is a cheap and easy alternative to fresh fruit and is just as good for you as fresh fruit. As frozen veg was not distinguished at all I am presuming it was lumped in with fresh as it is as good as fresh. SOME tinned fruit which can be stored in syrup etc might not be as good for you. However they also acknowledged that no other study had found this.

This is the full document jech.bmj.com/content/early/2014/03/03/jech-2013-203500.full

I have a photo of 7 portions of fruit and veg (sensible ones not bloody asparagus) it is nothing. As for 80g of peas your CHILDREN should be able to eat that many, never mind an adult. 80g is generally ONE carrot.

Also if DD2 fills up on fruit, she wastes decent expensive, meat and leaves her carbohydrates.

Meaning she's hungry at bed time and stuffing yoghurts (and DHs biscuits)