To think that the vast majority of people can't afford or won't buy 7 portions of fruit and veg a day

[LaurieFairyCake]

After listening to the debate on radio 5 yesterday Richard Bacon was making the point that it was easy as the portions were small.

No, they're really, really not!

I've just looked at the Daily Mail run down of how much you have to eat and I think it's actually prohibitive financially.

2 nectarines,
3 heaped tablespoons of sweetcorn,
Quarter of a big broccoli or cauliflower,
3 heaped tablespoons of mangetout
7 spears of asparagus
Half a pepper

All one portion

Seriously no one can afford that. In Aldi it's only 4 spears in a portion to buy for 79p so I need £1.60 to buy one portion of asparagus - obviously I wouldn't as I'm not an eejit.

Eating seasonally not so easy either as you can only get your nutrition from one thing twice in a day. So only two apples.

I reckon shopping in Aldi I'm going to need to spend about £8 a day for a family of 3 adult eaters for fruit and veg. So that's £56 a week just on fruit and veg.

I think people will struggle.

I think people need to just eat healthy and exercise. Isn't it just about luck in the end? Surely an extra apple isn't going to save you from a lot of what people die off. Genetics, environmental factors such as pollution, stress etc and not being in the wrong place and the wrong time.

When I look at the disease in my family, I just cross my fingers, plough through life and hope for the best.
I do eat healthy. Maybe off the point of this thread sorry.

Yes to Braeburn apples - the only ones that I truly enjoy!

I've decided that stress/worry over 5/7 a day is probably worse for your health than only managing a few bits of veg everyday

I agree, we could never afford to eat fruit and veg like that. I read a while back that the nutrition in fruit is going down (because of farming and stuff - ooh get me and all my science talk!) so you have to eat more to get what used to be considered one portion. Perhaps that's why these portions seem so much bigger than they used to be.

For us personally, we don't have a freezer so frozen is out (well we do have a tiny 2 drawer section in the fridge, but that is full of meat - i couldn't fit bags of frozen veg which reduce down to nothing when cooked it would take up all the space).

Also to the poster who said about grilled courgettes, not sure where you get yours but i find courgettes very expensive. As for fruit, that's what i struggle with most. Banana isn't great for my (or ds's digestive system) so i buy a few of them but ds has a small amount each day. For us adults i buy only apples and oranges and dh has one each a day in his packed lunch. I rarely eat fresh and have canned prunes and apricots in juice for breakfast and perhaps dried fruit for a snack or in my muesli (doubtfully enough for one portion).

We do better on veg, but they are usually cooked for a long time so i wonder what benefit they really are by then. Does anyone know at what point in cooking a vegetable loses all nutrition?

We eat a lot of tinned pulses and tomatoes too, do they count?

Compared to most people we know we eat way more fruit and veg. A lot of people i know do not buy any fruit and have minimal veg.

I understand that if that's what the science says we need then they shouldn't water down the information to what is easier for people. But in the same way they should understand that many people will simply accept that they fall way below it and wont really care. I can only buy the food i can afford for my family and i wont see people go hungry because i have upped the fruit and reduced the carbs and protein on the list.

A side point is many recipes must fall way below this guideline too. I do loads of recipes which say for example 1 onion, 1 pepper, 1 carrot, 2 sticks celery for a dish for 4 people. This is supposed to be served with no accompaniment as an all in one pot meal. If you only eat 3 meals a day and have porridge for breakfast and sandwich for lunch, this would make you below the recommendations even with the odd apple as a snack.

Frozen mixed veg on its own is utterly grim.

I have no idea how to get to 7 portions, it's a red letter day when I manage 5. Likewise DD. DS on the other hand is a fruit bat and would regularly have 7 portions if only his dietician would allow it...

I don't get the frozen thing. We've been told that eating frozen is better as the nutrients are kept at the level they were on freezing. Whilst fresh veg, once picked, constantly loses nutrients until eaten.

Has this now been proved wrong?

I agree countess

If you set unachievable targets people will simply not try.

Fruit and veg is very cheap on market stalls. But before anyone says anything, I know not everyone can get to a market and I know not everyone has the time/skills/confidence/inclination to cook from scratch.

SoulJacker that is probably true! The worst thing for health is stress and loneliness.

Did the study check for the possibility that vegetable eaters are probably eating in company! I'm half serious as I only eat 5/7 a day when I'm reasonably relaxed with my family and friends; on my own, or when stressed, I "eat beige"!

No African. The study put frozen fruit into the same category as tinned fruit and found that whole category to have a negative correlation with health. .

I can't see it's that unobtainable at all.

Yesterdays meals (going off the dc)

Cereal and banana, glass of OJ
Apple
Ham sandwich, mixed salad -including carrot, pepper (around half actually so that's a portion in itself), cucumber, lettuce - decent sized, so i'm pretty sure it's '2 portions worth' in all
Dinner was shepherds pie with broccoli and peas - 2 portions. That's not including the 'bits' of onions, mushroom, tinned tomatoes in the pie. Then they had tinned pineapple and ice-cream.

I make that 8+ portions. 1 Juice, 3 Fruit, 2 veg, 2 salad. It's a pretty standard day.

Portion sizes are 80g (according to the BBC) an adult will then have to consume a minimum of 560g of fruit and veg every day. In a household of 2 adults and 2 teenagers that calculates out to be 2240g. That is a lot of fruit and veg, over a week 15.5 kilos will have to be consumed to meet these guidelines.

Not read the report myself but somebody on the radio was saying that it failed to take into account that the sample of people studied were middle class therefore they had a better standard of living anyway. They were less likely to smoke, more likely to exercise and had a better standard of living all round. That actual impact of eating more fruit and veg was really hard to tease out of all the other lifestyle choices. Iit was only one study too. Not that I doubt that more fruit and veg, less crap isn't a good thing but to change policy based on one study would be silly at this stage.

If the portions of fruit and veg have got as big as some are saying then I don't stand a chance of eating 7 portions a day. I can't physically eat that much. I am not into a big meals at all - those fruit and veg portions would probably double what I normally eat in a sitting. Not possible.

It doesn't help that I don't much like a lot of veg. I like fruit and salady things but not much veg. I am doomed despite being a MC (probably) non smoker.

:( Depressing.

We are on a v.tight budget and consequently my midday meal is - nothing! i have trained myself to have 2 weetabix and a handful of raisins first thing, and that's it till evening meal. Evening meal will consist of meat and 2 veg. Or it's pasta'y equivalent.

I cook the evening meal every day, but it's so basic. I have to make allot of it as teens and DH have big appetites at the end of the day. Basic meat (chops/cheap roast chicken etc) with spuds (mashed/roasted/baked) and some frozen veg or peas. No money for fancy veg or spices.

We afford a bunch of bananas and a few apples at the beginning of the week and i let the DCs graze on those.

I guess that by the portion sizes quoted here each of us is barely getting 2 portions a day! 2 adults and 3 teens. (baby is breast fed)

Oh and we don't smoke, drink or have take-aways.

*I can't see it's that unobtainable at all.

Yesterdays meals (going off the dc)

Cereal and banana, glass of OJ
Apple
Ham sandwich, mixed salad -including carrot, pepper (around half actually so that's a portion in itself), cucumber, lettuce - decent sized, so i'm pretty sure it's '2 portions worth' in all
Dinner was shepherds pie with broccoli and peas - 2 portions. That's not including the 'bits' of onions, mushroom, tinned tomatoes in the pie. Then they had tinned pineapple and ice-cream.

I make that 8+ portions. 1 Juice, 3 Fruit, 2 veg, 2 salad. It's a pretty standard day.*

Ideally, that is great, but three portions of fruit a day per member of our family is 12 a day- 84 a week, ok some from tinned fruit.

That's hugely expensive. I can't afford this- I buy one or two bags of apples and one say of kiwis or bananas a week and when they are gone they are gone.

Similarly- cucumber, lettuce, half a pepper, carrot, broccoli, peas plus veg in shepherds pie- that's a whole cucumber, a whole lettuce, most of a bag of carrots, a whole broccoli between four people.

That is not going to cost less than say £5/6 for a day- I can't afford that a week for each meal in addition to the meat/pasta or whatever. I would have one portion of veg- so peas or the salad, not both.

I don't mean to pick on your menu, it looks great and if I had the money, I'd do that, but I'm just trying to point out that for those on lower incomes, that's extremely expensive for a family of four even if you aren't having exotic fruits or whatever.

fluffyraggies- see my post below yours, I feel the same. Don't feel bad though, we are doing our best with a more limited income. I think a piece of fruit a day plus one/two veggies at every meal is the best it's going to get in this house at present. It's also a lot more than many children get, I have friends whose children don't eat any vegetables or fruit ever, so I think 2/3 a day is an achievement under those circumstances!

I think people over-estimate. Ie a bowlful of salad is ONE portion, not lots as you might think.

2inches of cucumber is a portion, not a few slices.
16 button mushrooms is a portion - so a mushroom risotto might not even have a whole "portion" each in it.

Similarly if you put an onion, some celery, carrot and veg into a soup - the actual portion of soup you have wont have 4-5 veg portions in it...

It's still made me want to up my veg content, but I don't think it can be as cheap as bread/jacket potatoes/pasta other basic components of meals we rely on to fill up.

Vegetables are actually much cheaper than meat and many contain more protein per calorie than most animal products!

The recommendation is not to add extra vegetables on top of your existing diet, but that they should form a larger proportion of your diet!

Thetallest I agree on cost.

The only cheaper swap would be using pulses instead of meat as that counts as a serving of veg.

There was a thread yesterday about this. I said I couldn't afford the fruit and was told to cut out the crap and I'd manage it!
I cook from scratch, I shop in lidl. I have one meal a day. I'm great with the veg, make soups, bulk out meals with it and we always have at least 2/3 portions (not including tinned / frozen). But in a small household fruit goes off before it's eaten, it is expensive to have a variety (the key to the 7 portions). I grow what I can but I rent so long established fruit trees are out and the outlay is expensive

Ah yes - exactly what the tallest tower was going to say - the cost if you buy in sufficient quantity for 4 is a lot.

The report was saying 2-3 portions is so much better than none. The upper recommendation is what has made the headlines.

I think it's fairly easy. Surely if you eat more veg and fruit you just eat less other things.
Ie someone said oh it will cost £5 per day for the family and were horrified. Surely £5 x7 = £35. If that's the majority of your food then say £20-30 on a bit of meat/ fish/ dairy is a perfectly average amount to spend a week on food. Most people spend £60 + a week on food. In fact most people on mn often say how bills are £100+ a week.
Just by less snacks/ everything as replacing with veg and fruit

Today so far we have all (me, dh, ds4,ds2) had for breakfast : poached egg on toast, mushrooms, grilled tomatoes and beans. At guess 2 portions. Plus a fresh orange. 1 portion . = 3 portions

Lunch will be : raw peppers, cucumber, celery, carrots, tomatoes and pitta bread dipped in houmous. Greek yogurt/ honey and berries. At guess that's what 4 portions? If you take size of each into account

Dinner will be: chicken fajitas. With spinach, peppers, spring onions,tomatoes, cucumber, sour cream. That's 3 portions at guess

Kids will probably have a banana or pear as snack at some point

We don't buy any other snacks/ no fizzy/ no packaged food.
We buy organic meat/ fish, veg and fruit, and some dairy each week. Plus some wholegrain flour to make bread/ wraps etc, and buy rice/ pasta. Our bill for 4 is around £70 a week

It's quiet easy IMO to eat 7 portions a day if you eat at every meal. If you eat just toast for breakfast, sandwich at lunch, then it would be harder to fit x7 portions into just dinner.

vitamin - I'm not sure we get sufficient protein as it is. There's recommendations to have protein at every meal isn't there? We tend to do eggs at lunch if we can and then meat/pulses in the evening.

So veg vs protein isn't the issue. It's veg vs cheap carbs.