Workfare scheme for loan parents of children as young as 3, as of next month.

[WaterLoadaCack]

kept that quiet didnt they

Happymummy "The NRP should, of course, pay support but slating them for not doing so when not supporting the child yourself is just pot kettle black and loses the argument from the start."
You are failing to see that the man can have a job as he is NRP - The mother is in effect the nursery. If he paid for his children to go to nursery it would mean that the mother could also then work.
The man needs to be a minimum of 50% responsible for the bills where his children are concerned, as many of them don't even see their children let alone offer actual childcare for them.

Morethan good choice of the name you wanted

'We have decided if we don't meet conditionality under UC we are going to go back to how we were pre tax credits all those years ago.
I better start getting the free solar panels and growing our own again. grin. I am serious, because me working is completely out of the question. This time round it might not be so tough as we have dd now rather than the 2 ds last time. It will be weird getting off the grid.'

I highly respect that and in my eyes it is work in itself looking after home and family. It was considered 'work' years ago too in this country at various times and still is today by many. I too live a simpler life because being at home most the time is what matters to me too. I have 5 DC and find the teenagers need me more than the littler ones! life is short, do what you feel is right and enjoy it!

The govt is getting back handers from big companies for cheap labour. These staff won't be covered by a variety of HR regulations due to few hours and no pay meaning they can cut these corners. So when they get 'Sharon' in to cover previously salaried worker A's 3hr morning slot, closely followed by 'Tracy' to take over worker A's afternoon shift, why would they need to pay worker A at all?

happymummy the company I worked for who used workfare did so, so they did not have to recruit Christmas temps so yes the programme was taking jobs away from people.

heisenberg999Thu 03-Apr-14 18:52:47

A lot of the people on workfare are not that employablecas they dont want to do it so are unmotivated employees

I was made to do it despite being a carer so thanks for that.

HappyMummy

I think it was more than coincidence that redundancies were mentioned very close to workfare arriving.
My ds says they are pickers. So if they have a gripe with the system get ready to have a bag of sugar instead of apples in your home delivery. . No they aren't being watched or inspected anymore than any other new employee. A sample of home deliveries are checked daily, this sample isn't increasing.
They don't need the 30 staff they will be making redundant because every 6 months they will receive more slaves to replace those who are going.
I would say it will be interesting to see what other min wage jobs see people replaced but I don't want to think about it.

'Jellybean, i can choose to work or stay home. As it is, i choose to work as it sets a better example to DS and means DH and i share all aspects of our life. It also means i have a safety net should should things go wrong. '

Not necessarily a better example. Your post should say you think it sets a better example not that it definitely does. Many children grow up to do the opposite to their parents. Eg I know a few whose parents were 'always at work' so they decided to SAH for their children.

A great example can be showing children that you are willing to give up your career for a while (or cut your hours or share p/t work with other half etc etc) because you would rather spend the time with them. It teaches them there is more to life than money.Ultimately the main thing in life (for many) is not money and career progression but relationships with family and friends. I am happy to set this example for my DC. I also give up time for charity and school and help with elderly neighbours etc which i think are great examples. There are many more good examples than simply your work status anyway.

Children of non-working parents aren't automatically doomed to failure... my parents had to stop working shortly after I was born because my dad became very ill and my mum had to care for him; they've never been able to work since because it's a lifelong illness and lifelong caring duties.

I've gone through school as well as being a young carer and still come out with excellent grades and an absolute desperation to get the skills to work; better grades and more ambition than those of many of my friends whose parents happened to be working.

Maybe I'm an exception to the rule, but parents not working doesn't automatically mean the child is doomed.

True Moomin. I have a relative who has never worked due to severe MH issues and he has been a great example to us in many other ways. He volunteers when he is well and is a generally nice caring person with much empathy for others. Better his example than someone hell bent on their way or the highway or devaluing anything other than paid work.

I doubt the workfare people are taking jobs

Wrong.

They are short term, come with no references or checks so are unlikely to do the full job

Wrong.

If they are paid per person they dont need to get rid of the existing staff as the wage bill wont go up and they can concentrate on using the placement as its meant

Need doesn't come into it, if they are paid to take free labour, why would they pay people to do the jobs?

Who knows what skills they have or what knowledge they hav and i would imagine they need a hell of a lot of supervision

You seem to think that people forced into workfare are some sort of subspecies.

They are people who simply don't have a job, for many and varied reasons. It could be you in a different set of circumstance.

I've been a sahp for 22 years, my dh works very fortunately in a field he loves. Both our older dc have been pretty much self sufficient since 16 and apart from the odd small amount of money haven't asked for anything. both have worked from this age, paid themselves through college/uni, one small student loan that has gone now, own driving lessons, car, insurance etc.
DD is 10 and can't wait to work, she is currently campaigning for the law to change to allow children to busk. At 10 she is driven, far more than many adults I know, she has plans and knows where she is going. To gain the future she wants she needs me to be home to H.ed for the next few years. I won't be going out to work to support her, I'll be at home.

heisenberg you do realise that a lot of the ppl on workfare arnt another species dont you Your statement was very divide and rule. You might as well have said that childless ppl who are forced onto workfare are unmotivated . the attitude to ppl who dont happen to have living proof that they have had sex without contraception i see on here really appalls me sometimes.

DH has suspected COPD. On tuesday we had a paramedic here helping him to breathe. He was sent for x ray and has been called in because they have the result already He has been like this for the last 8 years. We have already been told that there is no cure and the condition just has to be managed.
When something happens to him (and it is when not if) it will be straight onto workfare and JSA for me because i dont have children. (if something happens to him while i am still under 45) So when i see comments like that it REALLY fucks me off.

Jellybean based on that list I must be great . I cut my hours down and moved jobs later on and now work only when DS is at school. Therefore money was never the main motivator (as long as we cover bills and can provide DS with everything he needs anything extra is a bonus) and we all have time for family and friends. I am also trustee of a charity and have numerous volunteer roles.

Moomin, yes there are exceptions but stats show that children in non working households do fare worse and schools are given extra money to try and do what they can to close the gap and overcome the disadvantage the parent has put them at.

Which charity is it Happy. And what do the volunteer roles involve.

That sounds great for you HappyMummyOfOne. However shouldn't lone parents also be given the chance to find a balance right for them? As has been mentioned things are easier for people in a couple.

morethanpotatoprints great point that some people need to be at home to home educate for various reasons.

Your a carer darkeyes not the same as a normal parent. A lot of the parents will just have more children in this situation. A lot I know cant get their children in to a routine, are half hour early, half hour late picking up their children from nursery, dont often attend as dont want to walk half a mile etc. I really dont see how workfare will change something so ingrained in society regarding not working.

Why Dark? Does it matter? Not prepared to out myself for a question that has nothing to do with the debate.

This thread is actually making me feel like to be treated as a human being in society, to be taken seriously and to be able to find work I need to find a partner. And that's a horrible feeling. Is this why so many women just accept anyone? Hmm.

Actually that's not true neither happy. Increase in Poverty is coming from working households not workless but keep going...

Jelly, i think three years is plenty of time and then its only a placement. I can do my things with or without DH, neither of us needs the other to work as we are both adults. I know lots of single people who work, people dont need another adult to hold down a job.

"Actually that's not true neither happy. Increase in Poverty is coming from working households not workless but keep going..."

FSM arent granted to working households and those on full benefits get them. This is what the pupil premium is based on. There is no extra given to school for the rest of the children so there cant be any compelling evidence that these chlldren dont perform as well.

We've already established that some do need another adult, happymummy. Due to childcare and jobs requiring flexibility.

If being a single parent on benefits is such an easy lifestyle choice, how come we don't see hoards of unemployed NRPs or working parents of giving up their jobs and clamouring to take on the role?

You can't work outside the home and care for your own child full time. If you are no longer in a relationship with the other parent, and if they don't contribute adequately in terms of either money or time, how exactly are you supposed to be able to work?

For a start you'd need a 9-5 job to find childcare. That's a tall order in itself these days. Then there's the small matter of affording it. Even with government subsidy it usually leaves parents who are entirely dependent on professional childcare living below the poverty line. Believe me, I know. Want to know how much my childcare cost for one year? £18,000. That's right - £18,000 for a 9-5 job for two children. That was using a bog-standard combination of CM and nursery. I earned £20,000 in those years and got a £80000 contribution in terms of tax credits (which included the child element). That left me with £12000 a year to keep a roof over my head, pay my bills, feed and clothe the three of us, travel to work... Think life was fun on less than £1000 a month (don't forget tax and NI) when just housing costs took up more than half of that instantly? I earned too much to qualify for HB or any other benefit apparently.

4 out of 5 working mothers (yes mothers, because few studies bother to examine fathers, what with childcare being a woman's responsibility and all ) rely on childcare provided by family and friends because that's the only way they can afford to work.

If you're a single parent with an NRP who doesn't pay maintenance (60% of single parents aren't getting any), you don't have family and friends to help out, what exactly are you supposed to do?

Fair enough Happy I was asking because i was hoping that you arnt volunteering for a single parent charity or similar.

heisenberg999Thu 03-Apr-14 20:58:48

Your a carer darkeyes not the same as a normal parent.

Yes but if you saw me doing workfare you wouldnt know that would you? You would think of me as unmotivated and unemployable as im taking a really rough stab in the dark that i wouldnt have "im a carer" emblazoned across the back of my jacket.