To think private schools should be banned?

[BethanyBoobs]

Why should someone have a better education just because their parents have money? Why should someone have a better chance of getting into university because their parents paid for their education? It makes me feel uncomfortable that people can buy their kids an upper hand when it comes to education.

I feel the same way about private health care too.

IMO private schools should be banned. Everyone should have the same chances when it comes to their education.

Haha. Every time I disagree I'm missing the point.

Plexi we obviously agree that NHS services should be better. We, like you have endured years of substandard equipment. Eventually, this has resulted in DP finally having to have a leg amputated. It's shit. I actually don't feel lucky that we can afford to pay for some private health goods. We're are not from money. We have good jobs now but it has been like climbing Everest at times. Good luck to your DP. I hope things improve for him and I know how hard it is to have such things happen within the family. It's devastating.

Hmmm.

Here's the other side of the coin for you to ponder.

Should wealthy people be allowed to send their children to state schools, thus using free-at-the-point-of-use governent funded education? Surely if you can afford it, you should pay for it, leaving scarce government resources for those who really need it.

Well, people work hard to give their kids the best, including education. Can't really blame them for that. I'd do whatever I could for my kids, if I had any. I wouldn't deny them a better education if the alternative was a poor one, what kind of parent would I be then?

Your sister sounds a total knobhead. I hope her idiotic views change asap. But getting rid of private schools wouldn't help, there'd just be a bigger fight for the better state schools. I'm sorry that you aren't able to afford the school you want for your kids, I can see why that would be very upsetting. But I think you're ranting at the wrong thing though.

If I had the magic solution, Responsible, I'd have posted it. However, I'd remove charitable status from private schools. The fees would then become VATable.

Taxing people out of the private school system would help the state sector to improve, in my opinion. Flame away, parents with children at fee-paying schools!

I find the arguments based on, "my family were poor, but look at me now!" rather distasteful. It suggests that people from poorer backgrounds all have the ability to become wealthy, despite poorer education and facilities, if they would only take the trouble. When they don't get to a top university because their schools don't hothouse them through A level, or when they don't get a graduate role at Goldman Sachs, then according to this argument it's their own fault.

Having grown up in Chester le Street, or Port Talbot, or whatever deprived town you choose, doesn't qualify you to speak for all young people from deprived backgrounds.

Note that nowhere in my post do I suggest 'banning' private schools. I say that they are inherently unfair. Quite a difference.

One of the things that you are now buying with private education is access to teachers who are not ground down by government education policies and in some cases OFSTED (as some private schools are inspected by alternative means). I taught with some great teachers in a comprehensive school and many of them are now in the private sector with no intention of ever returning to the state sector. Seeing them after a term in the private sector is a revelation - they still work hard, but it is like a weight has been taken off them.

Well, people work hard to give their kids the best, including education.

Well, people work hard and aren't able to give their kids fuck all.

I don't want to drone on about geopolitics but I will.

Global economics, by virtue of access to resources, and trade, and historical,legacy of trade agreements and decent non corrupt governance, and free trade agreement and geopolitical entente cordial, and the outcomes of all of those indicate very clearly that life isn't fair.

Chuck into the mix being a girl, being in the wrong country of birth, wrong faith, wrong colour, female infanticide, female genital mutilation, life isn't fair.

You want to berate people on a forum.

Stand in the street, go to Speakers Corner, distribute leaflets, appear in media debate, get elected into a position of power. Change governance. Use your rights in a democratic society, post Suffragettes, those who died under the hooves of horses for the right to an education.

Then, only then, then if you get there, then you will have you the right to judge others. Until then you are just another heckler from the sideline.

And do not swear at people in a forum, you do not know what cross they bear. It's rude. HTH

Just because you work hard, doesn't mean you work in a job that will make you a load of money.

Interesting you should say that, breathe. I know a teacher at a private school, formerly state sector. She says that teaching at a private school is nightmarish because the parents want to see the value of every penny. She is accosted by mothers at the end of every day, demanding extra work or complaining that their child genius isn't being sufficiently stretched.

She teaches five and six year olds. I'll leave that to sink in.

She wants to go back to teaching in a state school. At least she wouldn't be detained by an ad-hoc parents' evening at the end of every day!

And look your thread title post "AIBI TO THINK PRIVATE SCHOOLS SHOULD BE BANNED?"

Financeprincess Actually, we are all creatures who opinions are largely formed by our life experience. Anybody who has ever been a child growing up in a socially disadvantaged situation would be a sadist, not to want the same opportunities for subsequent similarly situated children,(economically and socially speaking)to thrive. I fear that my generation was the last of the truly socially mobile. I look at the children my DS plays football with and I fear for their futures.

People work hard and aren't able to give their kids fuck all.

This is very true sadly. This is food banks often have to provide to people who are in employment.

Why.

I think people should be able to send their children to private schools. The schools should, however, be truly private, no charitable status and, most importantly, their teachers to have to take out personal pensions/ private schools to provide. At present they are funded by the Teachers' Superannuation Scheme which is the one state teachers use.

The pensions alone would result in staggering fee increases.

Responsible, you do know that I'm not the OP, don't you?

Hence, it's not my thread title. And, there's no need to shout.

God. That would be even more elitist. Then, only millionaires and aristos could afford the 'best' education. Just like Victorian times.

You know I think it's really unfair that my children have not inherited any great talent from me or dh.

I think that if you've inherited a gift from your parents you have an unfair advantage over my children.. And that's just not fair. I think any gifted children should be prevented from ever using that gift and only those who have worked hard, and come from nothing should be allowed to achieve anything in life.

I think that we should stop having children who are individuals and as a nation, find the most boring dull mediocre talentless child we can and just clone it. Then we can all be 100% sure that all chidren are equally mediocre to begin with and each have the exact same crap opportunities in life. Of course we should not be letting parenting ability damage,or indeed assist them in life, so we had better not let that happen. So let the state handle it, they can bring them up as perfect little identical clones in Communal Clone Homes, being sure to punish any who dare think they can achieve more than mediocracy. Oh.. And if you want a child you will be assigned a random clone because they're all identical after all....

Then we will all be equal. Will you be happy then?

Oh and just to say. Banning private schools would simply create a bigger divide as only the super wealthy could afford to send their kids overseas to private schools. And they would do that..

I really dont understand why people don't get that...

I think that the consequence of removing charitable status isn't as clear cut as you present FinancePrincess.

The teachers I know who have moved from state to independent were all in state secondary school, some are now teaching in prep schools as well as some in independent secondaries. Interestingly I think I will probably be one of those nightmare parents, even at 5 or 6 and even in a state school. I was bored by my primary school and the lack of ambition in it and I won't settle for the same for my DD. However I actually think that the rigour of progress tracking in state primary schools will probably mean that it isn't a problem. From what I have seen of state primary teaching, the workload is horrendous and the differential in class size between state and independent must have an impact.

I also want to add to plexi that in actual fact we haven't bought a wheelchair for DP. We're still having to make do with the NHS one. We don't have the sort of money to pay for one at the moment. I just wanted to make the wider point that i defend people's right to use their own money how they choose. If I didn't then beleive people have the right to do the same with their DC education that would make me a hyper rite.
I guess that makes us double unlucky then.

Sure, ban fee-paying schools. The rich will just create enclaves around all the good schools, thereby ensuring no-one else's children get an education to a decent standard unless they too are rich.

Or move to Europe, of course. There are actually a few decent schools over there.

I'd advise caution when deploying the "it's everybody's right to choose what they spend their own money on" argument. It's not as effective as you might think.

Is it everybody's right to buy crack cocaine with their own money, for example? How about a load of radioactive waste from Eastern Europe? You could dump it in your own garden. After all, you've paid for it. To hell with everybody else; you're spending your own money as you see fit.

I think most people realise the argument doesn't extend beyond the realms of what's legal

But if we are he'll bent on using the cash we can scrape together to assist our children, then banning private schools won't deter us. We will just give them other, unfair advantages. I'm not sure if an evil cackle is needed at this point.