To think private schools should be banned?

[BethanyBoobs]

Why should someone have a better education just because their parents have money? Why should someone have a better chance of getting into university because their parents paid for their education? It makes me feel uncomfortable that people can buy their kids an upper hand when it comes to education.

I feel the same way about private health care too.

IMO private schools should be banned. Everyone should have the same chances when it comes to their education.

Haha if your sister thinks everyone will be "naice" in the private system. They have their fair share of knobheads just like every school does.

My children went to an independent school, they had some gay schoolmates, some gay teachers and there were some gay parents too. There were children with learning difficulties and a special support teacher and the school even had... wait for it... a lift for pupils with disabilities. Guess what? They all got along well and none of these things were an issue to any of them

They pay proportionately more of their earnings, and as a collective group of 'rich fuckers' they also pay proptionately more of the total amount collected.

Caitlin I'm not sure what your point is. I have little experience of private schools and was just going off what my sister said. I've since learned that is incorrect.

I'd love to find an accountant who can advise a self employed person how to avoid paying 40% tax.

Big corporations seem to know how to reduce their tax bills, but seriously, if you a sole practitioner, there's not much scope to reduce tax liability.

I'm kidding of course. There's nothing I like more than a big tax bill

But the thing is RARa if I have to pay substantially more tax than I do now I won't be willing to do the job that I do now as it is very hard work. Id probably get a much less stressful job, earn less and pay less tax than i do now = less tax take for the govt. I think there are plenty of other people who think the same way. Money is the only thing that motivates me and most of my colleagues to put in those 14 hour days.

We are lucky to live in a country where education is a right rather than a privilege and people should stop taking it so lightly and work a lot harder than they do to take better advantage of the free education. There are so many countries where parents cannot afford to educate their children or the girls don't go to school so getting the standard of education that we do is fab IMO.

I do wonder with posts like the Ops if envy does not have a part to play or would they take advantage of private healthcare and education if a great big fat cheque dropped into their lap.

Most people in the 40% tax bracket have no scope to reduce this.

'Soak the rich'... worked well for Dennis Healy didn't it?

Pisci and in the case of my DCs school poor kids due to the funding for supported places for DC that would benefit from the education whose parents couldn't afford fees...
Sooooo OPs Dsis' DC could well end up STILL sat next to oiks like my lot!

RaRa nearly 40% of my gross income is paid in tax and NI, leaving approx 60% for me to spend as I wish. I think you will find that someone earning £25k is paying less tax both in actual amount and proportionally.

Struggling with this. In the western capitalist world we are not born equal. Access to healthcare, education, housing is not fair. It is simplistic to suggest is is just about money. It isn't.

It's about family, opportunity, ability and geography.

If someone is lucky enough to get a good family background and ability to do well, they should pay their dues back to society for being that lucky by paying through their taxes for housing, healthcare and welfare that most likely they don't use (council housing, NHS, Social Security). I am not a labour supporter by any means, it's just common sense.

Doing well is not an excuse to not pay what the state deserves (this is my major problem with city bonuses, who ON EARTH, apart from maybe the Pope, who will get his reward elsewhere, gets bonuses for promises it will get better, but ISN'T performance linked .

WTAF, WTAF, WTAF??????????????

Can I have their job please?

You cannot expect to punitively punish people for having a better life than you. The drivers of the tax burden will leave as they are geographically footloose, ie can relocate anywhere at the drop of a hat.

You can, however, act to legislate by seeing your local MP in order to ensure we ALL play our role in our society. Yoofs of today are not engaging in the debate and will be overruled by the time rich, cash rich, post retirement agenda. You have been warned. HTH

Much better to encourage parents not to opt for private schools by ensuring that state schools offer the same or a better education.

We improve the state system by encouraging parents to be more involved in extending their children's learning and potential at home. I don't mean private tutoring or putting text books or tests in front of them, I mean making it a normal part of everyday life at home to talk about maths, literacy, history, current affairs, science, and a range of other academic topics, appropriate to the age, abilities and interests of the child. Where parents take an active interests in the development of their children's minds, exploring ideas, helping with problems, providing time space and resources for experimentation and exploration, it gives children an incredible boost.
A lot of private schools do not provide a particularly good education, especially for non- scholarship pupils. The emotional maturity, social and personal skills and grounding for forming loving long term personal relationships can also be lacking at some private boarding schools.

Don't be jealous of your sister, op.

How old are your DCs? If you want suggestions on how to help them do well academically, there are lots of mumsnetters who can give great advice every step of the way.

Why are you blaming your sister for your own views?

I thought you'd get a battering for posting this, Bethany, but for what it's worth, I also think that private education is inherently unfair.

For anybody who has posted "you're jealous/life isn't fair, live with it/ move to North Korea": I defy you to look a young person from a poorer area, where the schools aren't very good, whose parents can't drive her to a better school to 'exercise their choice', in the eye and tell her that she should live with reality and accept things the way they are.

I've heard all the arguments from the private school apologists before, but even they know that they are buying their children a leg up at the expense of other children. I find it particularly surprising when the same people bleat that they "want all schools to be good". Of course you do. That's why you and the other pushy middle class parents have abandoned the schools that you claim you want to see improve.

(Well said, Ra Ra and Garcia, by the way)

Financeprincess both DP and I are comprehensively educated and were brought up in two of the most economically deprived towns in the UK. I still think people have the right to choose how to educate their children.

Yes - it is unfair that private schools offer opportunities unavailable in the state sector (class sizes, facilities etc). Getting rid of them won't make life much fairer. We might send DD to an independent school if we think that is the best choice for her. Or we might send her to our local comp. If she goes to the local comp then we will save at least £12k a year for 7 years. Ban private schools and force our hand - we will be able to give her £84k as a deposit for her first house from the school fees we haven't had to pay. How is that any fairer? Life in the UK isn't fair. Children don't have the same opportunities. Getting rid of private schools will hardly make a dent in the inequality in our society.

We have the right to choose how and where to educate our children.

Yabu

Oh dear, Joni, you've missed the point.

Oh my fucking God! Posts like this make me ragey!!
Does it ever occur to people that families make enormous sacrifices to send their children to private school? Because they value the education (social and academic) and opportunities it brings?? My girls attend private school and I do not know one family who don't sacrifice something or other to make the education possible. I certainly would never choose to send them elsewhere and I hope. I'm lucky enough for them to stay in their chosen schools until they're 18.

Of course you are buying an advantage and to that extent you are "lucky" you have the money to bypass the shit system, joni. Others don't and their partners have to stick with the shit clunky wheelchairs provided by the NHS. As mine does. This lack of equity is fundamentally wrong. Your partner and mine should both have brilliant wheelchairs. It should not depend on income. Does that make you wrong to buy your partner a decent wheelchair? Does it make me wrong to buy my partner an ipad so he can communicate a bit better because there is not one ipad available on his NHS stroke ward for use by the patients generally, despite the fact that almost all of them have severe speech problems and the communication technology available on ipads is therefore lifechanging? Should we refuse to buy our partners such advantages? Of course not. It is what any decent person with the available funds would do in that situation. That is why my post was in fact disagreeing with comradebethany and saying that we should concentrate on making essential public services excellent so that there is no need for either of us to grapple with this kind of shit or for people who are poorer than us to have to put up and shut up (literally, in the case of may of my partner's fellow patients). I am sorry that my post annoyed you. But I still feel that you were out of order to tell me to fuck off.

Finance, I understand your point, entirely, however, what do you suggest is a better way forward?

Within three generations my family have gone from family of five in a two room tenement, to state grammar school, to private school bursaries as low income, to full fee paying for public school.

Application, ability and education, in that order, made the difference. We personally, now fund bursaries for families who have application, and ability but limited access to education.

We are funding 4 children's places, but aren't taking any state school places. We are paying back. Please try harder not to be so judgemental. It doesn't encourage understanding or debate or improve anything for anyone.

The rich are paid a lot more. And income tax is not the only tax. VAT is the same whatever your income bracket.

the gap between richest and poorest is growing. It is a very unequal society. It's more than just the school system that needs to change for that to change.

I don't agree with banning private schools. It looks to me as if what the money buys you is proximity to other kids whose parents are involved in their education.

I don't believe in good and bad schools. There's just engaged or disengaged kids.

It's self perpetuating. I went to a state school, as will my DS. I'm happy with that and don't feel bitter or marginalised. But I think private schooling will always be a part of our society and if the kids come out having done well then I can't see an argument for scrapping.

This is such a controversial subject. Speaking as someone with a child at private school, I can only say that she is there as the state school in my catchment area is simply not good enough for my expectations of a school for my child. I know all the reasons why people are opposed to private schools- they absolutely are divisive and my daughter and her friends are in a little bubble. HOWEVER, she is my child and I want to give her every opportunity available. I can hand on heart say that her attendance at the local state school, in a socially deprived area, will not suddenly turn it around. I think that it is really sad that not all children get the same life chances, but that is absolutely not the fault of private schools. Children's life chances can be plotted before they are even born, and if we really want to tackle inequalities we need to look at the numerous other factors at play. There is a direct correlation for example between birth weight and academic results at age 16. Focus needs to be put on the early years, age five is already too late.

But we shouldn't live in a society where a lucky selection of the poor have to get by on your feelgood largesse.