To think private schools should be banned?

[BethanyBoobs]

Why should someone have a better education just because their parents have money? Why should someone have a better chance of getting into university because their parents paid for their education? It makes me feel uncomfortable that people can buy their kids an upper hand when it comes to education.

I feel the same way about private health care too.

IMO private schools should be banned. Everyone should have the same chances when it comes to their education.

Having always been a total advocate of state education and taught in state primary schools, I'm really struggling now my own child is coming up to school age.

Our catchment school is rated good but despite 3 visits and really trying hard to see the positives of it, I don't like it and don't feel it's right. We are luckily able to afford private school at a push so are starting to look at it now.

If I had a freer choice of state schools and it was likely he could go to a different one then I wouldn't be looking at private school. The stupid thing is this school is undersubscribed from the catchment area due to the demographics of the estate I live on and people from the rest of town want to get their kids into it. But I can't get my child into another school because all the other schools close by have smaller catchments with more families in.

Alternatively I could move house but again I would still be using my money to buy my child a different education.

I think you're misreading my posts! I'm not against private education at all. I will be putting all 4 of mine through the private sector. My point was that the grammar system is only fairer if you have a bright motivated child. And the truth is that many parents who have bright motivated children would have less angst over if all if their kids were in the grammar system. They'd give less thought to the 'unfair' system if their kids were amongst the 'advantaged' ones.

That's great rara.

I am also a governor, class helper etc...

This kind of thing DOES make a difference and money or no money, you can't make parents become involved. Taking a failing school and chucking loads of money at it won't suddenly make it outstanding.

I'm not misreading your posts.
They just don't make sense to me.
I'm not against private (or grammar) either, but I think you make a lot of unfounded assumptions.

So no, I do not think the grammar system is any fairer at all. I do think if we had it, less parents would complain about unfairness because they would perceive there being any. When in fact, there would still be those poor kids accessing an education at the less well funded comp (this is always the case in grammar areas) who are still hugely disadvantaged due to their home life or lack of parental interest.

I am passionate about education and think those paying privately are shrugging their duty to society, and buying their way out of a system the should be investing in.

I think reintroducing selection in the state sector might encourage some parents back in. There is a section of trad middle class families using private education who can ill afford it. Woouldnt change the minds of the elite though.

State Grammar schools give bright children from poorer families a chance to reach their potential. My child will be going to a state comprehensive but it is in a very affluent area and she will not be able to go on the school ski-ing trips, join the rowing club etc. We live in an area that has state grammars but I knew she would struggle with the 11 plus as though quite bright, she is a daydreamer but if I thought she would have stood a chance, I would have put her in for it like a shot. She is already the only one in her class (in year 6 at primary) who has never been abroad; I'm talking Florida, Africa etc. We live on the outskirts (in social housing) of a very large affluent village. The Head Teacher at primary boasted a couple of months ago that our primary is one of the few in the country to go on residentials every year (nice) but we had to find £250 just after Christmas to fund this. It is a lovely school, don't get me wrong, but they want money for something every week.

Basically, the way I view things is the middle classes (well compared to us barely scrapping a working class living) "roughing it for a few years" in state comprehensives but then going off to uni, gap years etc. My daughter has lovely friends at primary and the parents are nice too but I am hoping for more of a mix at high school with children that don't go abroad every year etc and I am afraid it will be college my our daughter.

That said, if I won Lotto, I would be paying for private at the drop of a hat but would hope to stay grounded! My husband would to and he is a former shop steward "up the workers" type but realises now you have to do the best for your own children. We are in our 50s probably become a bit cynical but it is dog eat dog.

Paying for private also frees up places in state for other children. If I won Lotto I would pay for child to have better. It is dog each dog I am afraid. This coming from the wife of a former shop steward, up the revolution type.

That is my take on it anyway.

I think you are because you think I think we should have a grammar system or that I think state school parents are somehow less interested.
Just to be clear, I'm saying they would be less interested in the unfairness if the system as a whole and therefore less likely to start threads like this if their own child was also receiving an advantage.

I went to a HE meeting recently. The majority of parents there were teachers who until they had kids believed in the system, but when it came to it, couldn't quite put their kids into it, but didn't earn enough to afford private.

So it's kind of a moot point really.
Who gives a shit if they complain.
People will always complain, always have done.
Increasing the levels of a different 'tier' of school won't change that.

The reality of it is, education will never be fair.

Money definitely helps... it's true. But if you have parents who don't give a shit, that's ten times worse, has much more of an impact overall and is very hard to address.

Taking those who can afford a good education, and mixing them with the rest, won't make the education of those whose parents don't care, any better.

Bit repetitive there, sorry!

So RaRa, the ones who were my neighbours who paid upwards of 500k (in NW so not London) we're benefiting society as a whole? Surely they were still buying their children an advantage and paying for social selection,

I bet over half of "Private" Schools exist because a lack of Grammar School Provision ?

Grammar Schools have got to be fairer than Private schools for the obvious reason , there are not any fees. The way the tutoring issue could be fixed would be if Primary Schools put on extra classes in 11+ tutoring.
The schools if short of money could approach "Local businesses" to sponsor these classes, local businesses would feel they are putting something back in to the local community.

What am I reading?!?! I'm actually angry with myself for reading this.

The private schools that I know do not discriminate for SEN/children from gay couples/race/weight or shoe size.

I do think this is a case of the green eyed monster and inverted snobbery.

I am passionate about education and think those paying privately are shrugging their duty to society, and buying their way out of a system the should be investing in

And again, I don't think that it's a simple as chucking money at it.

Which child has the greater advantage?

1. the privately educated girl with little parental involvement
2. the state-educated girl with motivated parents who help where they can, do extra-curricular things and generally infuse education into all aspects of life

You will get people in both scenarios. Why is the first less fair than the second.

If my children had attended the local primary I was just referring to, they would not have made a jot of difference to either the standards or the demographics.

Certainly motown many provincial private schools offer a similar education to the old GS. And the same type of families attend.

This is a ridiculous thread. If people can't better themselves in order to provide a better life for their children then what is the point. These sweeping generalisations about people being lucky to be born wealthy etc etc, is mostly nonsense. Of the people I know who send their children private 90% of them grew up going to bog-standard state schools and have worked their arses off and sacrificed in order to be able to provide their children with a better education. Did they work harder than anyone who can't afford to send their child private - probably than some yes, but also there are probably many out there who worked just as hard and still can't afford to send their child private or buy a house in a good catchment and yes that's unfair. BUT it does not make it right to say to those who have worked hard and can afford it, 'sorry but you have no right to reap the rewards of your hard work, because it is not fair on others'. Communism has been tried and failed you know.
I grew up on a council estate and had a very unsettled life. I went to 4 primary schools in 7 years and 3 secondary schools - all rubbish schools. I was one of only 5 children out of a year group of 200 to go to university. Was I lucky? Yes because I was born clever, but so were many others and they made nothing of it, so effort counted a lot. I then worked 100 hour weeks for 17 years to bring my family to a point where I could afford a nice house in a good catchment for a state school. I have not had a life of privilege and I would fight to the death for my rights to spend my hard earned money how I wish. People who spend their time looking at others and moaning 'it's not fair' really piss me off.

Who said its a better education?

I could send my kids private but I would choose state any day. I don't want a posh talking robot with the guts knocked out of them, programmed into wanting to do A levels and Uni just because these private schools (businesses) want to achieve targets. I want my kids to go to school to have fun, find there personality and make choices. My belief is that you are either a 'go getter' or you're not. No amount of poncy schooling will give you a drive. I have always looked up to famous entrepreneurs and none of them went to private school. They all just had something in them that drove them on.

I could rant for hours about private school believe me.

Yes Nancy and how many other parents will have said the same thing.

Anyway, I have to go. It's my birthday and I'm off our for lunch.

I am not against private or grammar but am also a firm believer in state education. I think people who simply think that the money going into private, will otherwise make a massive difference across the board in state schools, are somewhat misinformed.

p.s. Nancy, I think we are largely in agreement

Nancy, yes, they are contributing to inequality, but not so overtly. Outstanding schools can and do team up with failing schools to share good practice/consultancy etc. they are both answerable to the same Local Authority and can therefore influence policy which affects all state school. They will adjust their voting habits to reflect what they want for their children instead of dismissing it from their reasons etc. etc.

Bamboo,

What about these options?

1. The parents that encourage and are actively involved in their children's happiness and welfare, take them on day trips, sit and read with them, do some gardening, make biscuits etc. All the while working their fingers to bone and pay for private education because they feel the schools in their local area don't offer what they feel their children deserve?

Or

1. The parents who don't give damn and have raised their children by sitting them in front SpongeBob Squarepants morning, noon and night, scream at them from the other side of the pub and not turn up to any parents evenings or help with homework.

Very extreme points aren't they? It isn't black and white and it is extremely unfair to suggest that money equates to better parents. There are shit parents in every tax bracket as there are brilliant ones.

Many Parents of children in some state schools do not have the time or resources to compensate for their children's comparatively poor education.