To think private schools should be banned?

[BethanyBoobs]

Why should someone have a better education just because their parents have money? Why should someone have a better chance of getting into university because their parents paid for their education? It makes me feel uncomfortable that people can buy their kids an upper hand when it comes to education.

I feel the same way about private health care too.

IMO private schools should be banned. Everyone should have the same chances when it comes to their education.

The reality of it is that parental involvement (at primary age) is a key determinant in how well a child does. This has been shown repeatedly in studies and is far more important than the quality of the school a child attends.

Yes extra-curricular activities and fete's etc are a lovely nice-to-have, but even without those, you can still get a good education in an average school with motivated teachers (hard nowadays I know) and if parents put some effort in.

My 3 DC go to state school, it is a good village primary (literally Ofstead GOOD) and we are happy enough with it.

BUT, we also spend additional time (equivalent to paying a tutor some might say) on other informal, but nonethelss educational activities which all contributes to their general learning experience. Helping out with reading, maths, general homework and arts projects etc..

The number of children whose parents don't bother to read with them, or help them with their little bits of homework or projects is staggering. I don't see how putting these families in an OUTSTANDING school is ever going to change that.

Being in a better school simply won't help because many parents feel that their child's education is the sole responsibility of the state and they literally wash their hands of it once the children turn 5.

My guess is that plenty of state schools get good/outstanding results because of parental involvement more than anything else.

Wordfactory, I have no issue whatsoever with bursaries paid for with my fees being used for kids who cannot afford the fees. I don't give a jot about how much money their parents have or don't have. Frankly it's none of my business!

As you say, there are many more complex reasons why people pay. Although I certainly value the 'extras' and the small classes it's essentially about avoiding a mixture of state interference, church schools and single sex schools.

poster Minifingers so sick of this so pretty much you want well motivated parents to sacrifice there children's education to drive up standards for those children to have parents who can't be arsed

Personally I think schools are bad for a mixture or reasons and simply parachuting in well motivated parents won't always help

What would help poor bright students is grammar schools

pomme, clever kids should get all the help they need to reach their potential but the grammar system creamed them off leaving everyone else to languish. But on the whole you notice that intelligent, engaged parents whose children would all be grammar Sch material don't really care about the poor kids who aren't. So many of them are actually holding the same divisive views they're accusing fed paying parents of having.

poster DamnBamboo

Amen to that I find at my sons outstanding school that a lot of the Unmotivated parents hate the school and tend to to stay away as it's very strict so due to that it's pretty much the Same type of intake every year pretty much the well motervaited

I live in a council home swapped to a worse house to a shitter area to get son in there was nothing stopping any one else on my council estate doing that bar lack of motivation

Time is often as important as money, as is parental education in itself.

I agree completely with other posters who talk about the quality in some state school being just as good as that in private!

I have many friends who are PhD educated and well-versed across a range of subjects, but due to the field in which they work are never likely to be rich and even less likely to be able to afford private school.

Their children will do well regardless.

Should parents like this not get involved with their DCs education then, just to make it an even playing field?

Where do you draw the line?

Not true grammar works well in NI

And I am afraid it's not just about well motervaited being involved in school is usually what happens outside school

I find many of the children that aren't doing well at my sons school are often out at night till what time just hanging around and usually the ones late for school never with the correct uniform ECt my son is involved with most of the free after school clubs ECt put in how many posh parents you like in a school it ain't gonna change that

But the grammar system is still divisive! I'm not familiar with the system in NI but in many areas of the uk that are still grammar areas as opposed to areas with 2 highly selective grammars, the comps have poor reputations and lots of social issues and a higher that usual proportion if kids on FSM and with disruptive home lives and disinterested parents. I've taught in one of these areas and lived in another so I've seen it first hand.

That should say, many other areas of the uk.

But nancy even if everything was just state-run across the board, you will still get better schoolsand worse schools!

You will never be able to eradicate that.

Lottery system is a stupid idea! Why on earth should someone like me have to drive around to three potentially different schools for my three kids to 'even things out'

It won't fly and I hope it doesn't.

But who is going to volunteer their child to be the token clever child bringing the state school up? If the child could go to grammar or private you just wouldn't.

It's still much more complicated anyway. Dh is very clever and from a very, very working class background. He got noticed at primary by a teacher and won a scholarship to local private school. It changed his life around totally. Amazing BUT he is still conflicted about who he is (and was massively when younger) and his family relationships are strained as they really struggle to understand us and our life.

But on the whole you notice that intelligent, engaged parents whose children would all be grammar Sch material don't really care about the poor kids who aren't

What a ridiculous silly thing to say. On what basis do you make this statement? You are saying on average, they care less than the parents of poorer/lower achieving kids. Funny that, all the parent volunteers I know, are ones whose children are doing just fine and don't require extra help... so they aren't doing it for their own.

I went to a very good, rural state school with very high levels of academic achievement, a very long time ago. I send my daughters to private school for two reasons.
The first is that I strongly believe that single sex education is best for girls in secondary, this is not available in the state sector here. This based on my own experience when our visionary headmaster decided to have a boys stream and a girls stream for the first two years, resulting in more girls taking science subjects later on. Then many years teaching engineering in university has given me the strong impression that girls from single sex schools are more confident and cope better in that male dominated environment.
The second is that I want them to be in environment where achievement, to what ever level they are capable, is celebrated, and not have them put up with accusations of swottiness and outright bullying I had to endure. They feel no need to play down their successes like I did, which I love. Every achievement - sporting, performance or academic is applauded. They are not too scared to use the toilets at school during the day because of who might be lurking in there. They are enjoying school much more than I did, what parent does not want that?
My DH went to a terrible inner city comp, failed to do as well as he could at A-level because of the poor environment and teaching and took a long time to recover from that poor start, he wouldn't do the same to his kids.

DamnBamboo, if you read my post of 9.26 you'll see that was exactly my point.
The biggest gap is between state schools in affluent areas and state schools in deprived areas. Not between high achieving state schools in affluent areas and there private neighbours.

But who is going to volunteer their child to be the token clever child bringing the state school up?

My own children are considered the token clever kids. Certain elements of the rest of the school aren't great and quite a few kids are underachieving. Doesn't really affect them or me and certainly, their own attendance at the school, does help the figures.

If I remember correctly abolition was part of the Labour Party manifesto in the early 1960s. It floundered because a) they had more important things to do and b) it was impractical.

Great shame really - private schools are divisive but we are stuck with them

Yes, so how do you address that?
Accusing clever kids parents of not giving a shit is ridiculous!

p.s. just for the record, I have no issue with private schools at all. We can afford one, we simply choose not to use one. The ones near me aren't that great anyway.

No, I was saying that if we had a grammar system across the board in the uk then there would be far less threads like this. A lot of parents who complain about the private sector are stuck in a situation with little choice and feel their and their children's efforts are in vain. If their bright, motivated children were at grammar school they'd care less about the 'advantages' of private schools. And they'd give less thought to the poor disadvantaged kids whose parents are disengaged.

I think even if we did ban them, the effect would be negigble. Parents would move abroad, home educate, take over GS areas, buy up the houses surrounding good catchments etc. And these DC would still be absurdly privileged.

So I'm not saying they care less about their own children's education. I'm saying they care primarily about their own children and would spend less time worrying about divisive elements of the system if their kids were able to access grammars.

No, I was saying that if we had a grammar system across the board in the uk then there would be far less threads like this. A lot of parents who complain about the private sector are stuck in a situation with little choice and feel their and their children's efforts are in vain. If their bright, motivated children were at grammar school they'd care less about the 'advantages' of private schools. And they'd give less thought to the poor disadvantaged kids whose parents are disengaged

I don't see how Grammar schools impact on this at all. If you are against private schools, how are grammar schools any better? You are making a lot of assumptions and I think that most people wouldn't want to see any child do badly, it's whether or not they have the time/resources/motivation to help make a difference.

How many people moaning on here about private education, actually get involved as they can with their own schools?

So I'm not saying they care less about their own children's education. I'm saying they care primarily about their own children and would spend less time worrying about divisive elements of the system if their kids were able to access grammars

Of course they care primarily about their own children. Who doesn't?
Why do you think a grammar is any fairer?

I'm a school Governor of my kids school. I am also class rep and listen to the kids read.