AIBU to ask why Christians seem to make everyone so angry?

[Bardette]

Any post involving Christians or the church seem to attract an extra level of venom from some and I wonder why?

Ooh, get you, katnip.

I didn't say it wasn't true, I said I wasn't aware it was the case. Dig deep and find your inner polite person.

Both schools have to do the Christian worship thing. But they are neither CofE nor Catholic. They are not secular schools, but might as well be.

It's probably just my loose transcription of it, Back.

At DDs' school it is presented that the existence of God is a fact in assemblies, as it would be in church, that's what I'm getting at. While I can counter this at home, I don't see why I should have to in this day and age, frankly.

Katnip Yeah 'presented that the existence of God is a fact in assemblies' is the bit that bugs me. I just wanted to be clear that it's not the education part because otherwise they will all pile in and say "but they need to learn about it. It's cultural".

I think you're right, back. It's the worship that has to be broadly Christian in character, not the education.

Makes you wonder what a broadly Christian education would look like - what would you do in PE?

Jump for Jesus?

With regards to the number of people on the Census who identify as Christian, compared to the number attending church, people are aware are they not, that church attendance is not a compulsory part of being a Christian?

I know many people who identify as Christian (i.e. a follower/believer in Christ), and have their own private faith, but choose not to attend church for whatever reason.

And on the other side of the coin, I know quite a few people who attend church weekly and claim to be Christian, but their actions outside of church suggest otherwise.

What is that they say, going to church doesn't automatically make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car?

Just something to bear in mind.

I get annoyed with some Christians because they are the only religious group who try to convert me or my family.

Nobody of any other religion knocks on my door on a Saturday morning or puts leaflets through my letterbox 2 or 3 times a week. People of different faiths go into my son's lower school to teach the children about what they believe, but nobody apart from the local vicar presents it to them as fact, that the children too should believe (it's not a faith school).

I almost wish I were back in school now. I'd be the one with my hand up saying "but miss! my religion says I have to hop on one leg when leaving the classroom and I must eat a hamburger 5 times a day (with ketchup if it's a friday). Also I have to sing the Monty Python spam song whenever the sun comes out to honour Apollo".

Tess, people often put Christian down on the census because they are culturally Christian but have no belief. There are plenty of polls showing that most people in the UK do not believe in God (although most still have paranormal and supernatural beliefs). The census does not ask about faith at all.

Another issue with using census data, is that if you give tick boxes people they will give one answer usually out of culture/habit and if you give fill in the blank they are likely to give a more thought out of their personal philosophy. The way these things are written has a big effect on the outcome (and why I've always argued it should all be fill in the blank).

The census thing is quite interesting.
According to this link, if you ask (in the census) "What religion are you?" - then you are assuming people have a religion and they feel compelled to write down the religion they were assigned at birth 53% Christian - 39% No Religion.
If you ask "Are you religious?" The most people say no - 65%, vs 29% Yes and 6% Don't know.

Im not angry about/at Christians per se, they've a right to their religion and views just the same as any other religion. I just don't like when Christians directly attempt to impose their views on me - mainly because I don't know many that practice what they preach and they seem completely oblivious to that. This is still a christian country as I see it and the level of christian bashing seems very strange, to me. Every religion is going to have views and ideals that don't appeal to some. Christianity is just another one. Another thing I find strange is, there appear to be a good number of people who claim to abhor and be anti what christianity stands for, yet appear to crave acceptance and acknowledgment from the church.

there appear to be a good number of people who claim to abhor and be anti what christianity stands for, yet appear to crave acceptance and acknowledgment from the church

I've never heard of this, mistress.

Can you give an example?

If you ask "Are you religious?" The most people say no - 65%, vs 29% Yes and 6% Don't know.

Some Christians would say they're not "religious" though. They dislike the word as it implies sticking to a set of rules, whereas they see their faith as a relationship - God reaching down, not man reaching up. here

Others would describe themselves as "religious" but define this religion as more practical, loving their neighbour as themself etc. here

So the people saying "no" to "Are you religious?" may still have a faith of some kind.

SuburbanRhonda

Yes. People who insist on being married in church when they're not religious and don't go to church and/or bible studies. Its common enough.

And don't give me "I don't agree with those things and nor do my lovely church friends".

It's just as much the church of those "lovely church friends" and liberal-minded people as it is anyone else's. Why should they be the ones to leave instead of the unreasonable dinosaurs?

And, by the way, if you're about to say you're affecting change from the inside, you're not doing a very good job.

How do you know? All the changes that the church has ever made will have come from inside, not outside. This is continuing on an ongoing basis.

For example, there's this petition gathering momentum at the moment, where clergy willing to bless gay marriages can add their names.

Things are also moving rapidly towards the appointment of the first women bishops, which was discussed in Westminster 11 days ago. Recent diocesan voting was overwhelmingly in favour of the new women bishops legislation here. This will go back to General Synod in July for final approval.

hunreeal - but many people will use a tick box that says Christian but in a fill-in-the-blank put atheist/agnostic/no religion. So either way, the census is not a very accurate measure of religion in the UK and it being constantly brought out to support Christianity and its special status within British society is rather annoying when it has been shown repeated to be so very inaccurate.

mistress

I disagree that people get married in church because they crave acceptance and acknowledgement from that church.

I think most people just want a nice venue or it's where they went as a child, so for sentimental reasons.

While I'm pleased the CofE church is going to introduce equality for women who want to be bishops, and is recognising that some priests support gay marriage, it would be refreshing if they were actually leading change rather than constantly lagging behind everyone else.

The Societal Attitudes survey used a more searching set of questions. Its worth a read if you're interested.

Duh... would help if I actually put in the link. The chapter on Religion is item 12 on the sidebar.

Both schools have to do the Christian worship thing. But they are neither CofE nor Catholic. They are not secular schools, but might as well be.

Can you not see the complete contradiction in that statement - by insisting on having Christian worship, how can they be secular? By definition being secular means the separation of religion and any government institution.

SuburbanRhonda

Thats fine. We are all entitled to our opinion.

Personally not being a christian, churchgoer, bible follower I wouldn't feel the want or need for the priest's words over me. I don't believe people do that just because the church looks a bit fancy either. Its not as if UK of all places is short of stunning venues where one can get married, complete with stunning views and scenery.

It's the Church/Religion in general though. I can get on fine with most people as individuals.

It's because of their literal holier than thou attitude. That only religious people have morals.

It's the converting, the idea that everybody should do what they believe in rather than just being nice to people.

It's because some think I should have my brains smashed out with rocks. You just don't do things like that in Berkshire.

It's the telling people to think of the poor and going on about humble carpenters' sons while standing in cathedrals dripping with gold.

It's because I was forced to take part in religious ceremonies at school.

Because religious people who don't need proof to believe something, and will go somewhere nice when they die, have control of nuclear weapons.

I try not to get angry. But is does irk me somewhat when Christians think they are being persecuted when they asked to follow the law of the land, and not be accorded the special privileges they have become used to. It also irks me that all laws and policy in this country has to be run past 25 unelected Christian representatives, and they have the automatic right to input on science, social and health policy.which has far reaching effects on things like gene therapy, sex education and policy on abortion and contraception to name but a few.

I had a very interesting chat about morals with a JW not so long ago. We discovered that we pretty much had the same ideals (treat others how you would want to be treated/be kind etc) but the only difference was that I'm an atheist and have been since I was 8 and he believes in God and creationism.