To say that telling teachers

[Nomama]

...that they are striking for pensions and holidays is fucking insulting?

Would I make it worse to add that if you believe the above is true you really do need to think again about your sources of information?

Could I make it easier to understand by repeating - as many posters have said this on the other threads - we are striking because the Goviots are wrecking your child's education? Whilst doing that they are blowing smoke up your arse by telling you that we, the teachers, are complaining because they are asking us to do a fair days work for a fair days pay etc etc.

Nope, we're not! We want to remind you all, and The Goviot, that we are being hammered by his stupid, ill though out and utterly unsustainable 'good ideas' whilst simultaneously being robbed of our rights to have a say in something we are the experts in. Add to that the fact that we are being financially shafted too and you might get the idea.

But I can honestly say that whilst the headline / legal reason we strike might be pay and conditions the real reason, in our hearts, is the continued dismantling of your kids education.

Sadly that isn't a legal reason to strike! That needs you, as parents to stop being side tracked and swallowing the 'all teachers are lazy bastards' press and to work out that The Goviot is seriously threatening your child's educational development.

Trust me, not all of you have the kids in the top 25%, academically. Most of you have the poor little sods that are being branded as failures because they cannot be 'above average' - only a small knowledge of maths is required to understand the the absolute truth of that point, Mr Gove!

nomama

Eccle you have missed out working conditions.

Let me give you an example:
During a recent HMI visit we were told that the percentage of pupils achieving greater than expected progress was below national averages.

When will someone on high grasp that measuring achievement against national AVERAGES will always result in half failing - no matter how high standards rise (or drop).

we are the experts in! Jeez I always flinch when someone in a child related field spouts this. Funny enough, they almost always, if not exclusively, are from the teaching profession. Their training has no provision for children's emotional development, yet they have the arrogance to self ordain themselves as "experts".

I've been working in my field for 25 years, all of them in highly respected international centres of excellence, consulted to govt. and addressed both national and international conferences. I have never described myself as an expert, nor will I ever do so. OP makes me wonder what kind of person she is.

Glad my kids aren't in her class tomorrow, highly unlikely she will be preoccupied with them. More likely thinking of clever responses to her latest post.

Yanbu.

Half the reason parents are kicking off about the strikes is because they view teachers as child care providers not educators.

To say that telling teachers

..that they are striking for pensions and holidays is fucking insulting?

Telling anyone why they're doing something is insulting. They know why they're doing it because it's them that's doing it.

You can be insulted by it but the fact remains, what the striking unions are negotiating for are better pay and pensions and terms of service for their employees. They haven't striked at all over the curriculumn. They aren't negotiating for better SEN provision. Nor will they give up improved pay for guarentees of paid for school trips for students or effective language provision in primary schools.

But that is what they should be striking for. They are unions, they are supposed to look after their employees interests, not the students. They aren't professional bodies setting standards and policing teacher behaviour. I don't really see why you would be insulted by the idea teachers are fighting for better pay and pensions.

Teachers working conditions need to be good in order to attract and keep talented people in the profession. As the pay and pensions go down, relative to other careers, the standard of people who will remain in the profession will fall, and our educational system will be worse off. I think the public should support the call for better conditions becasue an excellent educational sector is a huge public benefit. It's a valid thing for unions to square up to their employers over. Educational policy on the other hand is a less valid battleground for unions to use aggressive or combative tactics over - many more people have valid views on educational policy. Despite their expertise (and the fact I detest this government), teachers are not accountable for educational policy and striking to try and force a democratically elected government to follow a different education policy would be a bit outrageous.

Very similar problem here, the teachers went on strike for a number of reasons, a lot to do with effects of a new on law on education standards, but the media portrayed them all as feckless (even the bloody BBC) and striking because they didn't want to be tested.

All civil service departments have seen massive changes and funding cuts. Striking is just teachers spitting their dummy out of the pram, when many other vital sectors which don't attract anywhere near as much press attention, have to just get on with it. Leave the job if it's that bad. We are all of us civil servants, who are employed by the state. The government is our employer, so you get on with it and absorb the changes. Striking only ever penalises the kids and parents, the government don't care. Teachers are extraordinarily arrogant. No school is not child care but parents sign up to state education and conform to the requirements. It is a legal right for schools to provide a set number of days education. Teachers flout this for their own means and expect parents to support them and lap up the disruption, despite the teachers and school not fulfilling their legal requirement. Get over yourselves.

As floozy said.

Hear, hear floozy, much more succinct than me. Sorry still fizzing from a two hour meeting with a so called education expert yesterday.

There's some spectacular point missing going on.

Always delightful to see the "well it's rubbish for me so why shouldn't it be rubbish for you" out in force.

Suppose the criminal bar shouldn't have gone on strike either then?

With Floozy here.

OP says: "But I can honestly say that whilst the headline / legal reason we strike might be pay and conditions the real reason, in our hearts, is the continued dismantling of your kids education."

I say: "If you are concerned with the continued dismantling of our children's education, then why do you disrupt it further by striking?"

Can I ask you OP - what do striking teachers do on days when they strike? I'm sure that you may do lesson plans or mark work. I appreciate that school is not childcare for others that work, but it is a legal requirement that we send out children to school. I am aware that there would have been many working parents whose day would have been disrupted by this strike and many self employed parents (especially those with small businesses/start ups) who have had to take their children to work with them today and this is many cases is just not practical at all.

It is scary how little people are aware of the ill thought out changes being pushed through by this government.

Teachers are trying to be heard but some people just refuse to listen. It really isn't about pensions. Your children's future opportunities are being eroded.

Just wondering and this may be off topic but do private school teachers ever strike or are they not in unions?

I fully support teachers, their right to strike and think they should get paid more. I also think that a lot of them work very long hours and that support ( time away from teaching so they can do marking and lesson plan like they do in my sons school) should be a given not an exception. I would however like to point out that the salary starts on the £21k and goes up every year for a few years (so average is higher than the starting figure) and teachers salary is not pro- rated to take into account holidays unlike TAs.

But I can honestly say that whilst the headline / legal reason we strike might be pay and conditions the real reason, in our hearts, is the continued dismantling of your kids education.

Sadly that isn't a legal reason to strike! That needs you, as parents to stop being side tracked and swallowing the 'all teachers are lazy bastards' press and to work out that The Goviot is seriously threatening your child's educational development.

OK, so if I am hearing you correctly you are not striking for reasons you have stated because you don't have a legal reason to strike for the REAL reason you want to strike. (ie. dismantling of our kids education)

And that I as a parent am not intelligent enough and not to be trusted to make my own decisions so need a teaching union to fight my battle for me.

In fact rather than spend time explaining to me why you think i should be against the changes and why i should be writing to Gove myself and lobbying our MP's, you instead decided to strike for a totally different reason that actually you aren't bothered about.

My head hurts.......

I've also read this and would be interested in what teachers have to say about it.

www.teacherspensions.co.uk/members/faqs/new-and-active-teachers/scheme-reforms.aspx

According to the website the proposed increase in contributions for teachers earning under £75k is 0.9%.

So it could be true because personally I'd be very disappointed to hear my kids are losing days of education over a 0.9% increase when I've had my pension slashed and everyone else I know has had the same.

Lastly is Lord Hutton wrong when he recommended that an increase in members’ contributions was necessary to address “the imbalance between employer and employee contributions” and to help maintain the sustainability of public sector pension schemes until full reforms can be introduced.

My partner and I are teachers. I know he's outstanding because I observed and monitored him as a deputy head (before we got together ). I know I'm outstanding from the progress my pupils make and my resent references.

We are leaving teaching. We just can not do it anymore. We have NO life (school 7:30am- 6:00pm, few hours most evenings, catch up at weekends) We can't contemplate doing this into our 60s/70s, so need to look to change now. This is all I'm trained for- so God knows what I'll do. I've put my life into teaching from the moment I started my PGCE.

I LOVE teaching, I look back at some of the experiences I've given my classes and they were amazing (Cross-curricular planning with a real enthusiasm for what will engage the children, trips, extra-curricular stuff). But I don't have time to do it well anymore. There's always some paperwork that has to be done first.

It's not easy for me to say that I'm an outstanding teacher- it goes against my very nature! Am currently trying to write my CV and find it oh so painful. But from my 10 years track record I believe I am...

...but your children won't ever be taught by me. As a senior leader, I don't think I could even tell you what an 'outstanding' lesson even looks like anymore (according to current policy). I don't know what 'they' want from us.

Most of my friends are teachers. I don't know a single one who feels happy with the profession. Is that really who you want teaching your children? Someone who resents going to work each day?

I don't want more pay,and right now I do not care one bit about my pension (it seems far too far away to even think about). I would happily take a £10k pay cut if I could JUST TEACH. And I truly mean that.

Teachers have always whinged about how hard they work and how they are misunderstood by the general public. Always.

Eccle

Teachers always respond to people/posters saying how little they do and that arguing back is perceived as whinging.

niceguy

It isn't all about pensions.

MarjorieProops

your post started well but then resorted to the childcare argument.

tasteslikechicken

Its a shame that your posts boil down to these
"Glad my kids aren't in her class tomorrow, highly unlikely she will be preoccupied with them. More likely thinking of clever responses to her latest post."
and
"Sorry still fizzing from a two hour meeting with a so called education expert yesterday."

Would you like to post what you do so that teachers can belittle it?

Nomama - just read the guardian article. I love Michael Rosen.

As a teacher I agree with everything you say about the erosion of our profession.

As someone who rarely reads newspapers (very shameful fact) I didn't really know what teachers were striking for. I am as guilty as the man on the street about assuming it was to do with pensions or pay again - not holidays, do people really believe that?!

No-one at my work was striking and in the couple of days I was in this week it wasn't mentioned (probably as I hardly spent any time in the staff room) - I wasn't working on the day of the strike. I think people are too busy jumping through the hoops we need to get our school back from 'needing improvement' to good - we're well on the way. There's a sort of defeated resignation to Gove's idiocy (although he spectacularly toxic as EdSecs go). As a profession we have always been subject to the whim of the politicians, soon enough he'll be gone and we'll be on to the next idiot, proving themselves at the expense of children and teachers.

Schooling is like sausage factories and the sooner people accept that as a nation we need to let teachers teach and stop making children preform like battered seals the better for all

Results are worse now than they have ever been so testing, performance doesn't work

Go back to enticing children to learn and let teachers be able to do what they should be doing

Governments ruin main stream schools with such ease it never fails to astound me how easy they are able to do this

Honestly as a parent, sometimes it feels that if the government said the sky was blue, the teaching unions would go on strike until the government changed it to purple.

I am totally passionate that my kids get the best education they can. I push my kids to exceed and not settle for average. I expect my kids to be A grade students and get worried if they come home with a B.

So you'd think if I saw the government making changes that I felt threaten their education I'd be the first to be protesting at my MP. But right now I just see a bunch of teacher's going on strike and there's no coherent reason for it. You can't even agree amongst yourselves! Is it hours? Pay? Pensions? Education standards? Most didn't seem to strike in our area.

In fact, what is it you WANT? It's unrealistic to wave a magic wand and fix all of the above. What is it you'd be happy to accept? Honestly I have no idea. Right now I'm sure most parents are thinking like me "FFS just finish throwing your toys out of your pram and get back to work"

Frankly it's a mess.

Legally teachers aren't allowed to strike about the abscence of scientific evidence based practice, or the constant moving of the goal posts for the current GCSE cohort, or the exam marking scandals of recent years, or the appalling treatment of both gifted and SN pupils, crazy attendance rules, the lunch box police or the fact that so many leave school minus functional literacy & numeracy ...................

Thatcher changed the law so the ONLY thing they can strike legally over is pay and pensions. However most that I've met are furious about what's being done to the life chances of the pupils in their care. The poor things now spend their days doing everything except TEACH it seems. The good ones are either getting out of the state sector, or have already done so. Gove is OK with this as academies have no requirement to teach the national curriculum, or employ trained teachers. Given that so many of them are run by profit driven enterprises - how many students taking English GCSE will even be taught by a graduate in a decade's time?

I'm a home edder yet I find myself in total support of the teaching profession over the issue of strikes. The best way to entrench a privileged, entitled overlord class is to deny the masses access to the education that will enable them to improve their lot. He is succeeding in this quest admirably- shame that for most of us that consigns our children to a life of serfdom.