To see piracy as the same as theft?

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Cos it is right? Sure, the software/film companies are loaded. But so are retail stores and supermarkets etc. Why is it any different from stealing?

Do people buy pirate DVDs? I've only heard of pirating free things on the internet. Not that it makes a difference to the argument really, apart from the fact that the uploaders aren't personally getting anything from it I guess.

Caitlin I'm not sure Boney's argument is specious (I had to look that up, thanks for teaching me something! ) - I can think of loads of films/TV shows that I'd watch if they were legally available for free, but I'd rather not watch them at all than pay money for them, at least if I had to pay the amount that DVDs and box sets usually cost. You could say that in that case I shouldn't watch them in the first place, because I shouldn't be getting things for free, but on the other hand if I did pirate them it wouldn't actually be taking anything away from anyone. It wouldn't surprise me if a large amount of pirating is that sort of thing.

Streaming a film repeatedly or illegally downloading an album that you often listen to I see as more wrong, because it's clearly something you would have paid for if there was no other option, so in that case pirating is definitely taking money away from the artists/industry.

Oops, my first ever double post

Sallying, but in that case, where's the distinction drawn between downloading one episode that you've missed and downloading a whole series that was on years ago that you didn't catch at the time (and for which box sets are available)? Legally, I mean? Not being deliberately obtuse, I genuinely don't understand

I've read this entire thread and I'm bemused.

I have a box in my house from a popular tv company for my subscription fees I can watch normal tv catch up,films,music,box sets loads of them. If I want a film that's not included I can buy it.

If I want a book I either buy it online (kindle for ipad or sony thingy)or in a book form.

If I want a cd I buy it or use iTunes store to put it on my iPod or phone.

I wouldn't dream of stealing it not that I would even know how to.

Is this stuff really availible online and are people not worried about viruses or the Internet police jumping through the window? (The Internet police is a joke I don't really believe in them) perhaps it's an age thing but I'm stunned.

Yes,TheGirl ,people do buy pirate dvd's.

people do buy pirate dvd's.

But that is only an absolutely tiny number compared to those that download stuff for free. In the overall scheme of things I would suggest that the number that do this is negligible.

Is this stuff really availible online and are people not worried about viruses or the Internet police jumping through the window?

Very much so. When it comes to viruses I would presume that you check anything you download from any source anyway? I certainly do.

With the police, copyright infringement is a civil matter it is not a criminal matter so the police wouldn't get involved.

The only time the police would get involved is if you were selling it or if you personally were distributing it in incredibly huge numbers.

It is theft. As someone who works in the pre-production side of the film industry, our jobs are being affected by people who think it's their god-given right to have films but who can't be bothered to pay for them.

I actually have a lot more sympathy for people who steal food because they couldn't feed themselves/their family otherwise, than I do for people who pirate films and music. Films, music and software are luxuries - if you can't afford them then don't steal them. And certainly don't complain about the price of going to the cinema/buying a DVD if you've ever downloaded something illegally, because you're part of the reason they're so expensive.

Having said that, the film industry at least needs to wake up and make it much easier for consumers to purchase their films online.

It is illegal and you could argue that it is immoral, but it isn't theft. Theft is something different because it deprives the original owner of the use of the item.

I know politicians say theft sometimes, but on any subject they say whatever they think will work up the voters.

I will download tv shows that have aired overseas, but aren't shown here for months on end. If they can broadcast certain events live, then I see no valid reason for them not to broadcast shows within a reasonable time frame. I do still love having series on DVDs however, and will 9 times out of 10 buy the series on DVD when it is released (eg, I watched all of the Newsroom just after each episode aired in the US, but have just purchased the first series now that it has been released). I don't feel anyone is missing out by me doing this.

I completely understand the argument for making sure artists and crew get paid, but those of us in countries where series aren't released for months will always get frustrated and seek ways of seeing things earlier, especially with the internet buzzing about what's happening on certain shows. Avoiding spoilers is really tough when you've got to wait six months! When I was in high school we used to get a friend in the US to tape (yes, actually video tapes!) the X-Files and post them over every couple of weeks because we didn't want to wait months to see them. It's been going on for years, it's just that the methods are more sophisticated now.

One of the ways I see it is if you buy a movie, CD, software and you think it's crap you can't return it. However you can return food, clothes, etc. if they didn't live up to your expectations.

Also what about things you can download, say an episode of your favourite TV show, that is unavailable to buy? Is that still taking money away from people?

Caitlin17

I would go back to the cinema if I was guaranteed to be able to watch the film. If a cinema cannot guarantee that you will be able to watch the film (after all that is the main point in going) why would I pay them when I have other better options available?

As for the second part being specious there are no actual figures other than the specious figures provided by the industries themselves.

Only illegal to sell and buy illegal copies or something like that.

I'm sure some music artists would rather have a fan who downloads for their own personal use and recommend to a friend that they are a good artist and their friend buy the album than lose a fan for the price of £11.99 for an album who could then get the artist more fans..

where's the distinction drawn between downloading one episode that you've missed and downloading a whole series that was on years ago that you didn't catch at the time (and for which box sets are available)? Legally, I mean? Not being deliberately obtuse
If the broadcaster is providing a catch-up service to viewers you are paying the copyright owner - either through your TV licence or with a Sky/Virgin/BT subscription or by buying products whose adverts pay for its transmission.
If you have downloaded from some unauthorised source on the net you are not paying the copyright owner and that is illegal (although you will probably get away with it).
YouTube is a blurred case - some of the material is placed there legally by the copyright owners, but much of it is not authorised.

I don't worry about viruses as I have a Mac and never in over 6 years of using them have I had one.

I have download a few things online like TV series (before I found how to get Netflix US that is) and the odd CD.

I did download every episode of True Blood because I didn't want to wait for the new series to air in the UK.

I don't understand how downloading a TV series is pirating when it's already been available for everyone to watch.

I know pirating is illegal, but I ust can't seem to get irate about it. Stealing from a shop seems far more serious.

I would be more concerned about Facebook buying whatsapp which was in effect a huge mailing list...all this was done without the customers consent.

The digital age is changing the way companies do business and many are profiting enormously from it.

If you've ever used a proxy and tried to access sites that UK ISP's have blocked you'll soon find that it seems to be mainly us the UK that aggressively prosecute this issuing orders to ISP's.

with regard to youtube there are many videos that we can't watch because the uk music industry refused to sign up to them.

We lose out due to a decision that we didn't make.

Also with regard to digital downloads, you don't buy them you effectively lease them from the company, unless iTunes has changed its policies when you die your account dies with you as it is not transferable to another person.

www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2013/01/29/3678851.htm

Technically it's not theft. It's copyright infringement. And well, I mostly don't do it. I will own up to making mixtapes of the top 40 back when I was a person of little musical taste child, but the record companies lost nothing by me doing that, as my pocket money was 20p a week and I simply couldn't afford a cassette of Barbie Girl by Aqua. (Although I did use to look at it with obvious longing in the supermarket each week.)

The morality is sometimes a bit hazy though. I once illegally downloaded a computer game so I could join in with the international match that my transatlantic friends had just decided to have that very night, but, as I intended, I bought the real thing a week later. I'd have bought it legally in the first place, if digital distribution had been in place. These days, digital distribution is in place, so I buy legally straight way.

I was definitely breaking the rules, but I don't think I actually did anything morally wrong. I could have waited three days and been given a copy of the game for free by a friend, and the publishers would have got nothing. But it would have been legal. Or I could have not played at all, and the publishers would have got nothing.

I have sometimes infringed copyright because I thought the artists would get more money from me doing that. Before your mouths drop open, let me explain. I can buy an album by this pair of artists second-hand for £1.50. That will include p&p. They and the label supporting them will get nothing of that. But it will be legal and I will have legal ownership. Or I could try Amazon where (if you include p&p) I will pay more than that, and it will support them.

But what if I want to give Jedward some money, but I would rather not have possession of this fantastic musical work of genius if it means paying in the region of a fiver's worth? Then, my friends, I go down to the library, I rent the music (paying £1.50 a week for this) and copy it, before retiring it. I have now funded my local library services, and they will pass some of that money on to Jedward's music label.

P.S I have copied less than 10 albums, either on to cassette or mp3, since I started doing this. That's over ten years. I mainly buy or go without it.

Whoever made the TV programme/album/book/software/film invested $$$$$ in labour, skill and even (!) physical objects to produce it.

So I don't see the difference between nicking a dress from Top Shop and an illegal download.

JoanRanger I expect the point has been made before, but taking a dress means they have one less dress. Making a copy only affects the original creator if it loses them a sale. So if it was copied by someone who couldn't possibly have afforded to buy it then it makes no practical difference.

Oh and anyone who has ever grabbed an image from the internet to use as an avatar or to upload to a post is probably guilty of copyright infringement.