To see piracy as the same as theft?

[SquidgeOps]

Cos it is right? Sure, the software/film companies are loaded. But so are retail stores and supermarkets etc. Why is it any different from stealing?

Ok BoneyBack, but then the film industry still has a right to be annoyed with you for pirating, even if the cinema doesn't iyswim?

(I realise I'm contradicting myself btw, I think I just like disagreeing with people )

I don't see that as a side-step complexnumber, you can not do something for ethical reasons and still not see a problem with other people doing it.

I'm not going to be an arse about this, I have bought dodgy DVDs in the past and I would be as guilty as sin if I were to imply I have done otherwise.

So... I don't think I can rationalise/excuse what I have done.

I am just a bad man.

It is theft no two ways about it. How are independent producers supposed to attract investment in their films when so much potential revenue will be lost to piracy? It will lead to fewer films being made, an overall decline inqquality and a narrowing in the types of gilms being made. Dh is an independent producer and we are certainly not loaded!

what katienana said!

(And not necessarily what I said)

The only reason I don't download illegal stuff anymore is that my PC is a proper gaming pc which cost a lot to custom build. I rather buy my music now the virus are just not worth it.

I think that instead of complaining about it (the genie is out of the bottle, lets face it) they should think of more clever and current ways to charge for their products. eg Apple/Google/Amazon and the App/Play store. All the people I know who wouldn't pay £11.99 or whatever it costs for a CD are happy to regularly pay £2/3 for an app. Or distribute cut down versions of the software for free and then let people pay for extra functionality and content.

Yes. this. Albums were traditionally seen as loss leaders for the artist and music companies. There to promote the stuff that really made money like merchandise and tours.

I think it should follow the app market model. so I should be able to legally download say 4 or 5 songs for free, or a film or tv series; allow them to tack in some advertising to it, let them track what I listen to and view, because that is what is worth money to the distributors.

If the film or album is great and I want to 'buy in' I could then pay for more songs, get discounts on merchandise, album artwork, if I liked the film I'd pay for an exclusive invitation only cinema screening to get the full experience or bonus material like interviews, directors cuts, posters etc.

The media distributors won't be able to hold back the floodgates of piracy, pirates will always be two steps ahead, but with a bit of thought they could make as much or maybe more money for much less effort than in the past and make the pirates irrelevant.

I don't really get it.

Is it actually illegal to buy a pirate dvd?

I think these debates always struggle because people are talking about different things. It's completely legitimate to say that you think any form of copyright infringement is morally wrong. It is generally a civil rather than criminal matter but that's fine - a breach of contract can be morally wrong so can a tort.

That's not really relevant when talking about what we should do about it though. Remember that the decision for the copyright holder is what is the most pragmatic solution to their problem, it's not like deciding whether to prosecute someone or not. Often it's not worth their while to attempt to sue multiple infringers. If they're individuals they don't have deep pockets and anyway, copyright is actually quite complex. It's very arguable that under the current legislation it's technically OK to stream as long as you're not keeping it. This is due to some interesting interpretation of the temporary copy exemption. This is an unintended loophole really.

For what it's worth, I don't infringe copyright, knowingly at least.

TheGirlWhoKickedTheVipersNest
Of course you can download "a show you've missed". The broadcasters provide that facility because they want you to watch it. If they didn't want you to do it they wouldn't make it available on iPlayer etc.

will lead to fewer films being made, an overall decline in quality and a narrowing in the types of films being made.

Have you seen what's in the cinema at the moment? If I am to go to the cinema (not sure why I would) to watch a film, it needs to be something that's new, exciting & that pushes boundaries....

I just thank the lord for Netflix - I can watch as much as I like, when I like and for not much money - that's the model these people need to be using.

No problem with paying my way - but the emphasis is on lazy, expensive films that don't challenge or excite. It's a money machine.

I'd rather there were less films made if it meant the quality went up.

And if I want to read a book for free, I buy it from Oxfam or from the market stall - I honestly couldn't tell you when the last time I bought a brand new book was. So please don't tell me that JK Rowling will starve because of me....

Actually, going by what I see on my friends' webpages, independent film producers are getting ever more inventive at attracting sponsorship and funding for their projects thanks to digital means of publicising and distributing their material. None of them seem to be particularly bothered by piracy - again, it's similar to musicians; apart from a few key players at the top, artistic people are not treated particularly well by the big corporations and if anything the changing way in which people access music and films has been beneficial to small players who are savvy enough to keep abreast of developments.

TheGirl

But if the industry cared enough about the consumer then the issue of pirating would be reduced (not stopped).

But the argument that piracy reduces the money going to the industry is a fallacy as it implies that those pirating would have bought the product, there is no proof of this at all.

Thatbloodywoman it is illegal although prosecutions are usually only of the seller.

I'm shocked by anyone admitting to have bought pirated DVDs or CDs. It is theft. No question about it. And that's before you take into account tax fraud and money-laundering. There's no excuse for it.

Boney the first sentence of your post simply makes no sense and the second is the same specious argument that is always trotted out by people trying to justify this form of theft.

All the musicians I know freely put their music up on the internet to promote their gigs. They want as many people as possible to hear of and listen to them so they'll watch them live. That's how they earn their money. Fuck the record companies, they don't support artists, they create manufactured crap. Musicians would benefit from them going out of business.

As for films/tv shows, most of them wouldn't have been heard of or seen by as many people if it weren't for internet downloading. It massively widens their audience and it's up to the corporations selling them to join the 21 century by selling them cheaply online as they're released. Until then, people will download illegally.

It's not stealing as nothing is stolen. If anything actors, writers and producers benefit from a wider audience of fans who will buy their boxsets, go to the cinema for them, buy related merchandise etc because they've seen the quality of what's been produced and like it.

Technically, it is theft. But like quite a few people I just don't care enough about it. Companies are loaded - if they really want to clamp down on piracy then they will. Its as simple as that.

To the 2 posters above "putting your music" on the Internet is a free choice. Being ripped off by someone illegally copying and selling the cds you have for sale is completely different.

There are many sites where you can download live recordings of bands.These are recordings made illegally at shows. Some bands don't mind, others ban it completely. The people who run these sites will not allow torrents to be hosted from bands who refuse permission.

There have been and will continue to be prosecutions for piracy.

I work in book publishing.

My company has the following departments: editorial, production, sales, marketing, publicity, legal, hr, finance, IT and probably a few more. All of these people have to perform their function whether we're producing a hardback or an ebook. Authors expect to be paid the same for any format. The ebook has to be produced in an ever increasing number of versions so it works on all devices.

The end result is that the profit margin on an ebook is not much higher than a hardback.

It's theft. I never do it.
My brother does it all the time. I don't think it would cross his mind to pay for a movie or a new game.

By the way, every one hates tax dodgers don't they?

Buying illegally copied DVDs and CDs is depriving HMRC of the VAT which would be paid on a legal version and I'm guessing the person selling it isn't paying tax.

I don't like it. I love movies and if we all just bought pirate, it would affect the industry badly. Aldo hea that the people behind many pirate booty are very dodgy, do we reall want to put mney into these peoples pockets?

Thank you Caitlin.

Do people buy pirate DVDs? I've only heard of pirating free things on the internet. Not that it makes a difference to the argument really, apart from the fact that the uploaders aren't personally getting anything from it I guess.

Caitlin I'm not sure Boney's argument is specious (I had to look that up, thanks for teaching me something! ) - I can think of loads of films/TV shows that I'd watch if they were legally available for free, but I'd rather not watch them at all than pay money for them, at least if I had to pay the amount that DVDs and box sets usually cost. You could say that in that case I shouldn't watch them in the first place, because I shouldn't be getting things for free, but on the other hand if I did pirate them it wouldn't actually be taking anything away from anyone. It wouldn't surprise me if a large amount of pirating is that sort of thing.

Streaming a film repeatedly or illegally downloading an album that you often listen to I see as more wrong, because it's clearly something you would have paid for if there was no other option, so in that case pirating is definitely taking money away from the artists/industry.