To see piracy as the same as theft?

[SquidgeOps]

Cos it is right? Sure, the software/film companies are loaded. But so are retail stores and supermarkets etc. Why is it any different from stealing?

Yes it is theft. It is not justifiable or moral.

It's also more expensive to buy a digital book than it is to actually buy a book isn't it?

Something to do with VAT and daylight robbery.

Why are pirates called pirates?
Because they arrrrrrrrr

Oh stealth grab your coat

I agree with squoosh and think that s/he has explained how I see the difference to be very well.

Plus, I know loads of musicians and they all pirate stuff all over the place - they're not bothered about record companies losing money because most musicians don't get a lot of money out of record companies in the first place - all the musicians I know get the majority of their income from gigging or doing 'library music'.

sodding hell I meant!

seems pervy

I thought it was illegal to sell pirate dvd's rather then illegal to buy them.

stealth

I hope you've paid for that Parrot

It is different. I'm not saying it's ok but it's different.

The charging models that we have are outdated and don't apply well to digital distribution. Something should be done so that people are paid fairly for their work, but this isn't supposedly enforced by this obsolete "money changes hands for physical object"model, which isn't working.

People are pirating, not just because it is cheaper, but because it is more convenient, and more logical given how the materials behave. THis needs to be fixed by different commercial models, not just tutting and finger-wagging

It is wrong, but I have no sympathy for software or music companies, because they shift the goalposts to whatever suits them. When they want to restrict what you do with your game / CD / DVD or whatever, they will try to argue that they have sold you a licence to use the game / music / film.

But if your disk gets scratched to the point of being unusable, then they argue the other way. Ask them for a replacement disk at cost price, which you should be entitled to, seeing as you have apparently paid for a licence, and they'll tell you to bugger off.

So fuck 'em.

spring break I don't understand your point:

As for forago suggesting that gaming marketers are well paid... I guess she's not in the industry (which by the way is one of the UK's great growth businesses - we are a huge success in the world of gaming, and it's a good employer)

I didn't say all gaming marketers are well paid - I wouldn't have a clue, but the marketing people at Microsoft are as are all the (many) developers I know in my industry (and I am pretty confident all software developers are pretty well paid, as long as they use modern, in-demand languages, as there is so much demand for them).

And you seem to be saying that the Games industry is very successful and one of the UK's (few) growth industries - so software piracy hasn't had much of a negative impact in the Gaming world then?

I would imagine this is true - due to the newer business models they use. The music industry have followed suit with steaming services.

All the big media corporations (books, music, films etc) are shitting themselves over the fact that people are starting to resent paying the same to download a file as they would for a nice shiny piece object, and finding ways around it.

The costs are hugely inflated so that Sony et al can keep feathering their nests rather than any altruistic reasons.

The artists don't get paid more for a digital download that costs Sony considerably less to manufacture & distribute than they do for a hard copy.

That's why lots of authors are selling & distributing their E-books themselves.

Gigging is the way for musicians to make their money, which is as it should be - no one should be a millionaire based on 1 studio session - get out there & earn it!! The fans demand it....

A large part of my job is enforcing copyright, I am a lawyer in house in a media company. I actually agree with bones though, commercial models that work are key. The ship has sailed on media publishers holding all the cards, it really has.

I download US TV.

The networks that decide to show something in the USA then show it in the UK 6 months later have a lot to answer for. I'm a big fan of Sons of Anarchy. Season 6 finished in the US months ago. Chances are by the time its shown here Season 7 won't be far off, so I downloaded it at US Pace.
Do I feel guilty? Not at all. When the seasons finish I buy the box sets anyway. Some shows they actually can show at the same time. Walking Dead is only a couple of days behind for one.

If the shows I watch were shown here at roughly the same time as they are in the USA then I wouldn't download them.

Branleuse the record companies can kiss my arse

So, you think you are entitled to something for nothing?

It is NOT a rational argument.

(And, I will state again, I am not innocent of buying the odd dodgy DVD, but I know I have done something wrong.

the entire music industry is manufactured bands

yeah, right...

(maybe in your very small world)

These threads that come up periodically remind me very much off the similar TV licensing ones. Some people are very ethical and moral and upright and believe very strongly in traditional definitions of right and wrong, good and bad. Which you can't fault. But as we can see from many of the responses to the OPs original post, society is not static, it is fluid, and people's perceptions of what is right or wrong, realistic or unrealistic and, eventually, legal or illegal does change and evolve. The OP doesn't want or hold much stock in contrary opinions - but I think it is clear that not everyone feels as strongly (anymore).

Hence we have seen this week that TV license evasion is to be decriminalized. And an actual copyright lawyer has come on here to confirm that the landscape has changed with respects to digital media. The smart response is to adapt to take advantage of it, surely.

So, how do people think that the artists of the future are going to get paid?

Or do people just think, "someone else's problem"

You are stealing their creative output.

You are not entitled to something just because it happens to be on the web.

bones I agree with you... I'd be interested to see what innovations do come up in the future, as (morality aside) the current model simply isn't tenable.

On the subject of Linux it's an interesting model in itself actually - for anyone not familiar with it it's a computer operating system based on the principle of 'open source', i.e. that anyone can see the code it runs on and write their own, make changes etc. On OSs like Windows, that most people are more familiar with, the code isn't freely available, so that anyone who wants to use a Microsoft program has to pay for it, whereas on Linux the OS itself and all the programs you can run on it are free and not subject to copyright. Many of the developers of the 'base' system do get paid for it, mainly by technology companies, but the vast majority of programs, extensions and so on are made by people who get nothing for it. Despite that, a huge amount of software exists and there are very few things that a Windows computer can do but a Linux computer can't. It also works better than Microsoft in many ways as more people being able to see the code means more people who can spot and fix bugs and security weaknesses.

I don't know whether it would ever be possible to translate a system like that to other creative industries, because it works on a very different principle of people working together to make things that are mutually beneficial rather than expression of individual creativity. And it only requires time and a computer, rather than a huge initial expense like making a film. But it is a good example of an alternative system to the whole idea of copyright, one where piracy wouldn't even be a recognised concept.

It is ridiculous that it's often more expensive to download something than it is to buy a box set. On Amazon you can buy the first 9 series of Grey's Anatomy as a box set for £70 or if you just want series 9 it's £21.50. If you want to buy the right to stream it on Amazon instant video then it's £33, or £38 if you want HD. If you prefer to buy it digitally it's nearly twice the price and you don't get the option to sell it on when you're finished with it as you would with the box set.

So I can wait until the series is finished and pay twice the price for some ones and zeroes as I would for a physical copy that I can do what I want with once I've finished with it or I can torrent episodes for free as they are aired.

So, how do people think that the artists of the future are going to get paid?

Concerts?

The old fashioned way of course.

OP, have you never recorded a movie/programme off the telly?