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To think NHS do gooders need to realise that the patient is not always right

646 replies

oggieogggie · 24/03/2014 15:10

I've had a right few weeks of it. I'm an auxilliary nurse and my morning normally starts by taking breakfasts around the ward. Picture the scene if you will - a trolley full of cereal, bowls and milk and a pot of hot porridge.

I walk into room one = "would you like breakfast this morning?" patient (full mental capacity) says "well before all that I'd like you to fix my TV. I cant get the channel to turn over." I say "well I'll see to that after breakfast, would you like some cereal?" he says "not until my TV is fixed ... can't you just do it, it will only take a minute (so everyone else should wait until YOUR TV is functioning before they get their breakfast and you don't see that as selfish at all?) I don't say this - I remain professional.

Imagine a few more patients who decide that their TV/Slippers/Laptop chargers etc are more important and then the unfortunate patients who receive cold porridge as a result -

Next I take a tray of hot toast around = One patient demands "I want it buttering and cutting into thin strips." I explain that she will either have to press the buzzer for someone else to come and do it or wait until I have finished delivering toast before it gets cold. "But I want it NOW!" she demands. Ok, so it's fine that everyone else will receive cold toast? that's ok with you is it?

Imagine more of the same throughout the day

"I can't get my phone working!" = well I'm taking care of a rather ill patient at the moment, it will have to wait." "that's it!! I'm making a complaint!!"

"I want you to wash me." = "I will help you but you have to wash what you can yourself." = "why?? its what you get paid for!!!" no actually - I get paid to help people back to independence and to care for those who genuinely can't do it themselves ... " - "Ive had no sleep!! I want you to wash me! I can barely move I'm in so much pain!!" (well walking down the stairs for a fag 10 minutes ago must have been agony then eh?)

I'm sorry, but could it not be said that sometimes, just sometimes certain patients are not always right and that as staff members we should not live in fear of one of these people complaining that we're not jumping through hoops to keep them happy? And no I've never had a complaint against me - I do that nursey thing of taking the abuse and maintaining a smile. Just lately I can't quite shake the notion that the NHS (and Britain in general) is so bothered about political correctness and ultimate customer satisfaction that it's actually counter productive. Why are we all so polite??!

OP posts:
ICanSeeTheSun · 24/03/2014 19:53

Something like this

To think NHS do gooders need to realise that the patient is not always right
Slinkysista · 24/03/2014 19:56

I think the title of this thread and the op's obvious resentment of her/his patients is absolutely horrid. Time to
Look for a new job for the patients sake. You sound like a right misery!

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog · 24/03/2014 19:58

When you have 30+ patients on the ward, 1 person can't take individual orders of all those patients.

You have to make the toast in batches while sorting out the breakfast trolley (cereal, hot drinks etc). When that batch is done and the tea pot is still hot, you go to the first set of patients while another batch of toast is in the toaster (the smell of burnt toast is very common on a hospital ward Grin) and then start over again.

If you went round taking individual orders, you'd never have the time to get anything else done. Don't forget, a lot of patients may need feeing or need help taking medications.

NurseyWursey · 24/03/2014 20:02

It's like I've said previously, there was a lady going mad because the nurses couldn't get her 'expensive coffee'. She was offered coffee. But no, because it wasn't 'expensive coffee' she was furious.

Or if we don't have the right sort of biscuits

Or if the bread is too thick or thin

etc etc.

But on the flip side there are the lovely patients who make your day worthwhile. Like the woman who helped me calm another patient down and she did it tremendously. Or the man who who grabbed my hand and said thankyou. Just one thankyou and it brought tears to my eyes.

horsetowater · 24/03/2014 20:03

Nursey - Some patients will not accept that having their tv blearing at 11pm is disturbing over people and you daren't say anything because its 'I WILL REPORT YOU'.

I had an altercation with a nurse who I had to ask 3 times if she would ask someone to turn his TV off (midnight on a children's ward) and instead of complaining to him she spoke to me in a really menacing way telling me to back off!

The lad with the TV on was a teenager and quite loud and aggressive with a big family that was always around. She said he couldn't sleep without the TV on. I think she weighed up her chances and chose to make me the problem and not him as I was less likely to complain. If this is the attitude prevailing you might as well let the bullies win. Staff should be in charge regardless of who threatens to complain or sue.

IamInvisible · 24/03/2014 20:05

When my Nan was in hospital, she had Alzheimer's, there was a lady on her ward who kept asking what time the bus went. (She, also had Alzheimer's, infact most of them did). I was visiting my Nan one day and the nurse said to the lady " will you shut up about that bloody bus!"Shock She then turned to me and say "ignore her, love, she's got dementia!" Shock Hmm

I was flabbergasted, and said " yes, as has my Nan! You'd better not be talking about her like that!" I did complain about that nurse. She had no right, regardless of what had happened that day, week, month or year to say that about that patient. Those elderly people were extremely vulnerable and needed looking after properly.

I have, also, been an in-patient far too many times over the past years. Yes, some patients are hard work but some nurses and HCA are in the wrong job. Only last month one had me in tears when I phoned up and asked a perfectly reasonable question about my operation. She snapped "FGS you silly girl, we deal with this every day!" I am 43 FFS!

Grandemama · 24/03/2014 20:05

Crohnically I had a really bad experience after my EMCS too, I have coeliac and they forgot to give me gluten free food. Luckily I had brought some food with me, but I couldn't move so I had to wait until my DH came to visit me to get food.

I could feel the lochia everywhere and wanted someone to help me clean. It did happen after some hours and the midwives laughed at me when I said I had to wait hours to get them.
The Bell was left where I couldn't reach it for this reason.
My bedsheets were bloodstained and I didn't dare to complain.
When I asked for help (first night after EMCS) to change my baby's nappy I was given a bowl and asked to go to the toilet and get some water and cotton wool and change my baby myself (I still had the catheter in and couldn't move below my waist).
No help with getting baby out of the cot to feed him (he was breastfed).
My nipples were bleeding by then and I was screaming in pain every time I fed my baby. Every midwife gave different advice regarding breastfeeding and one forced my baby to have some formula which he vomited afterwards.
Long, long story... so, after this lovely 'experience' I have decided that, if I can and if I have the money, I would go to Switzerland to finish my days when I am old... I dread to think what would be of me old and unable to get better...I think suicide sounds better.

NurseyWursey · 24/03/2014 20:07

That's not on at all, I'm sorry you had to go through that horse. To be honest I've experienced it myself. Full ward, 1am and a woman with all her family around and they were cackling and keeping everyone awake, plus music on the TV. This was a post surgery ward so some very poorly people who needed their rest. The ward lights were also on because of this one family.
I spoke to the nurse who reacted like the one you had did.
I said to her that I'm also a nurse, and if something wasn't done I would speak to the family myself and report her.

I then heard her say to the family 'i'm sorry but SOMEONE has asked for you to be a bit quieter'

I ended up switching the lights off myself Grin and ended up with the woman next to me whispering a 'thankyou'

It's beyond a joke sometimes.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog · 24/03/2014 20:07

I suggested we put up an orientation board in every room on our ward, to let the patients know who we were by colour coding our names by our uniforms, and also how many staff were on shift to how many patients they had to look after.

Yes, to the colour coding name board, no to the patient to staff ratio of individual areas. We could display the actual staff numbers, but because of the set up of the ward, it is very misleading.

In the 6 bed acute area, there is 1 qualified & 1. HCA.
The two 12 bedded wards 1 qualified and 1 HCA.

It looks like there are 3 qualified with 10 patients each, when in reality 2 nurses have 12 and the other staff nurse has 6 very ill (often dying) patients.

Apparently we couldn't be too truthful as the management didn't want the complaint Hmm

ICanSeeTheSun · 24/03/2014 20:09

I have worked in my current role for 11 years, I have never snapped at a patient asking the same question.

I always think what if it was my family/ friend in that bed.

NurseyWursey · 24/03/2014 20:09

Iaminvisable I think this highlights the increasing need for ALL nurses to have dementia training. I was lucky because I worked as a carer for the EMI for a couple of years before becoming a nurse so I got good experience.

I'd often have to take my residents to A&E and the staff just didn't know how to deal with them, thinking they were being dramatic and violent for no reason.

Grandemama · 24/03/2014 20:11

Nursey I had someone like that in the ward, a Somali woman who was allowed to have more visitors than the 3 we were allowed. All very loud.
Another one I told to shut the f... up, because I really needed to get some rest... and yes, I am sure some nurses are afraid of their patients because no one dared to say something to the loud people.

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog · 24/03/2014 20:16

I should also add, this is a care of the elderly ward with very frail, or very confused patients with dementia. Quite often needing 2 members of staff to carry out personal care.

Kudzugirl · 24/03/2014 20:20

The thing is you don't need 'specialist' training to know that-

  1. You don't tell one patient what is wrong with another. I don't care if it is 'obvious' that patient A has Dementia. You don't discuss it in the manner given in the example above.

  2. Talking to patients with respect, not telling them to shut up, not calling them 'silly girls' -this is all explicitly covered in HCP training and if it is not being adhered to then that is a disciplinary measure. I would NOT tolerate any of my staff talking to patients in this manner. I would hope that it is always reported.

I have never snapped at a patient or visitor. I have never spoken about a patient in the manner of some of the accounts above. I do not breach confidentiality.

I treat myself badly sometimes because of the stress. I snap at my family. I judge myself harshly. I sleep poorly, worry incessantly and feel constantly stretched beyond my endurance. But i do not take it out on patients. That is why so many nurses become mentally ill and burn out because the level of suppressed anger at the system, the government or whatever.whoever you blame can be so very hard to bear.

horsetowater · 24/03/2014 20:20

Apparently we couldn't be too truthful as the management didn't want the complaint

Horsey that's exactly what I was afraid of and that's what's behind threads like these. Management refuse to see things as they are and use double speak and glossy statistics to make things appear differently. Everyone else knows different but this has lead to a bullying who-shouts-loudest mentality which leaves a lot of people suffering in silence.

horsetowater · 24/03/2014 20:21

Sorry not Horsey, *HotDog

fiverabbits · 24/03/2014 20:25

My DS who is type 1 diabetic and has 4 injections a day was admitted to hospital last October with D & V. It is the largest hospital in Wales. When it came to his 4th injection no one could find the key to the medicine cupboard at his bedside so he didn't get his injection. The next day he medication was sent to the pharmacy, no idea why so when it came to do his injection nothing was on the ward. He asked 3 different nurses for his injection, no one didn't anything so he had to wait to be discharged and do his injection at home, luckily we live 10 minutes from the hospital. I complained straight away but as I type this I have only had a letter to say that my complaint is being looked into, I rung 3 weeks ago to ask when I am going to hear something but nothing has arrived. When my DS didn't feel well recently he said please don't put me into the hospital, he is 33 years old and has been in hospital lots of time and has never said that before. I dread the future for the whole family.

shouldnthavesaid · 24/03/2014 20:27

IAm if you don't mind me asking - you weren't in Aberdeen by any chance? Because I witnessed something very similar with a lady who had Alzheimer's. Saw her when I was visiting my mum once on a ward.

I was upset for her, as she actually pulled her own catheter out which must have been terribly sore, and kept asking to go home. I was visiting my mum like I say, who had to go see another doctor in another room, so I was left alone with this lady. I at first went to get the nurses - I presume, an HCA by uniform, and she actually tricked the lady by telling her she'd missed the last bus and would have to wait all night, which only upset her more. She didn't want to get the bus with her catheter in, told me it was embarrassing and disgusting and unladylike.

I went and sat with her, and asked her gently why she was so desperate to get the bus, where was she going? She explained that her father would be waiting for her, and it was tea time. Now she was 90 + , and her father was obviously long dead. I told her he wouldn't mind waiting a while longer, and asked her to tell me about him. What stories she had - she had seen the start of the very hospital we were in, had worked there as had her husband, she was a radiographer.. Her bracelet was from her gran, her rings were her wedding rings passed down from others.. She'd gone to school in what I knew as a shopping centre.

I sat with her for two hours, slowly tucking her into bed, sorting her nightdress as it was half off, etc, and thoroughly enjoyed her company - she'd had such a normal life, in every way, but to me it was fascinating. She seemed comforted by being there, in her earlier years, no longer confused. I left her much happier than earlier, as I left she was happily telling me to join the home guard as I had the body for it!

Have never forgotten all that she told me. I kept an eye on the announcements in the paper for over a year, and when she died, thankfully having been sent to a care home for her final months, sent a message to her family telling them what a lovely woman she was.

The lady next to her (who had been in and out a couple of times having tests in these two hours) asked me if I would go for being an hca (hence, two years later...)

That's the sort of thing I'd love to do every day, and what I would hope any nurse or HCA would want to do - but I suppose, as has been said on here, it has to be balanced between bedpans, toast, bed baths, discharges and broken tvs. And all those things are such a huge part of getting anyone to better health, or in ensuring someone experiences good palliative care.

I've tried to understand why the nurse would want to trick her like that - I suppose, her upset was relentless and I have no doubt it returned once the distraction of me had gone, but there are ways she could have helped I think without doing what I did, and without mocking her and being cruel as well. I'm no saint, I think if I was actually working there I may well have reacted entirely differently but I'd still not see it as acceptable or right.

Meerkatwhiskers · 24/03/2014 20:28

Wow OP I think you need to change job. You clearly are not enjoying it.

Yes patients can be demanding. You are lucky, they usually chose the drug round to ask all their questions lol. Just to get us nice and distracted Wink.

With the toast, that would have taken you seconds to do. Tv's I wouldn't do but food needs to be able to be eaten.

And are the ratios really 16:1? Shock Ours are 7:1. That seems incredibly scary to me. I couldn't even imagine having that amount of responsibility on my shoulders.

JerseySpud · 24/03/2014 20:33

shouldnthavesaid that is lovely what you did it really is

I always found i never had time to sit with a patient like that because there was always so much that HAD to be done, especially in the mornings :( thats one reason i won't go back. You don't get time to be a nurse anymore to patients and really take care of them due to understaffing and paperwork

JerseySpud · 24/03/2014 20:34

when i was an Aux/HCA it was 12 patient to one trained and one HCA. And they were bed bound, confused and often very ill. Or wanders. Very sad :(

HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog · 24/03/2014 20:37

horsetowater I agree. The staff tend to get frustrated with other staff or sometimes patients (not acceptable IMO) the patients and visitors get frustrated with the staff (not always acceptable IMO).

The only ones not getting the daily abuse are the ones cutting the staff budgets. Yes, their job may be stressful too, but I bet they're not subjected to abuse daily.

The advice we get is to write an incident form.

I'm sick of bloody incident forms. They don't actually achieve much in the grand scheme of things. It's just to protect the Trust from being sued I guess, but doesn't prevent the abuse (verbal & physical) in the first place.

There are repeat offenders. They are known to most hospitals, but they are never banned. You can't ban someone who is in need of medical attention. So you just have to take it I guess.

Wantsunshine · 24/03/2014 20:40

I think op needs to consider a job change.

I have been visiting in hospital and had to complain about how a couple of nurses were speaking to an elderly patient in the next bed. It was horrifying. I doubt much came of it. They told me to mind my own business when I commented that really isn't a way to speak to another human being only to get a rant at how hard working they were and how he had been a nightmare all day.

ICanSeeTheSun · 24/03/2014 20:40

This poem has been passed around for decades, some nurses say they saw it back in the 70's. However, it's a great reminder especially with the new year near approaching.

as the story goes...When an old man died in the geriatric ward of a nursing home in an Australian country town, it was believed that he had nothing left of any value.

Later, when the nurses were going through his meager possessions, They found this poem. Its quality and content so impressed the staff that copies were made and distributed to every nurse in the hospital.

One nurse took her copy to Melbourne. The old man's sole bequest to posterity has since appeared in the Christmas editions of magazines around the country and appearing in mags for Mental Health. A slide presentation has also been made based on his simple, but eloquent, poem.

And this old man, with nothing left to give to the world, is now the author of this 'anonymous' poem winging across the Internet.

Cranky Old Man

What do you see nurses? . . .. . .What do you see?
What are you thinking .. . when you're looking at me?
A cranky old man, . . . . . .not very wise,
Uncertain of habit .. . . . . . . .. with faraway eyes?
Who dribbles his food .. . ... . . and makes no reply.
When you say in a loud voice . .'I do wish you'd try!'
Who seems not to notice . . .the things that you do.
And forever is losing . . . . . .. . . A sock or shoe?
Who, resisting or not . . . ... lets you do as you will,
With bathing and feeding . . . .The long day to fill?
Is that what you're thinking?. .Is that what you see?
Then open your eyes, nurse .you're not looking at me.
I'll tell you who I am . . . . .. As I sit here so still,
As I do at your bidding, .. . . . as I eat at your will.
I'm a small child of Ten . .with a father and mother,
Brothers and sisters .. . . .. . who love one another
A young boy of Sixteen . . . .. with wings on his feet
Dreaming that soon now . . .. . . a lover he'll meet.
A groom soon at Twenty . . . ..my heart gives a leap.
Remembering, the vows .. .. .that I promised to keep.
At Twenty-Five, now . . . . .I have young of my own.
Who need me to guide . . . And a secure happy home.
A man of Thirty . .. . . . . My young now grown fast,
Bound to each other . . .. With ties that should last.
At Forty, my young sons .. .have grown and are gone,
But my woman is beside me . . to see I don't mourn.
At Fifty, once more, .. ...Babies play 'round my knee,
Again, we know children . . . . My loved one and me.
Dark days are upon me . . . . My wife is now dead.
I look at the future ... . . . . I shudder with dread.
For my young are all rearing .. . . young of their own.
And I think of the years . . . And the love that I've known.
I'm now an old man . . . . . . .. and nature is cruel.
It's jest to make old age . . . . . . . look like a fool.
The body, it crumbles .. .. . grace and vigor, depart.
There is now a stone . . . where I once had a heart.
But inside this old carcass . A young man still dwells,
And now and again . . . . . my battered heart swells
I remember the joys . . . . .. . I remember the pain.
And I'm loving and living . . . . . . . life over again.
I think of the years, all too few . . .. gone too fast.
And accept the stark fact . . . that nothing can last.
So open your eyes, people .. . . . .. . . open and see.
Not a cranky old man .
Look closer . . . . see .. .. . .. .... . Me

This is one of my favourite poems

frumpet · 24/03/2014 20:40

shouldnthavesaid , i honestly dont know any HCA or nurse who has time to sit with a patient for two hours during a shift . What you did was provide a service that the NHS cannot . Although i do find if you sit quietly with a lot of people with dementia for a few minutes and have a chat it can make all the difference , i also try to draw them into conversations with other patients as like you say , some still have fantastic long term recall .