To think NHS do gooders need to realise that the patient is not always right

[oggieogggie]

I've had a right few weeks of it. I'm an auxilliary nurse and my morning normally starts by taking breakfasts around the ward. Picture the scene if you will - a trolley full of cereal, bowls and milk and a pot of hot porridge.

I walk into room one = "would you like breakfast this morning?" patient (full mental capacity) says "well before all that I'd like you to fix my TV. I cant get the channel to turn over." I say "well I'll see to that after breakfast, would you like some cereal?" he says "not until my TV is fixed ... can't you just do it, it will only take a minute (so everyone else should wait until YOUR TV is functioning before they get their breakfast and you don't see that as selfish at all?) I don't say this - I remain professional.

Imagine a few more patients who decide that their TV/Slippers/Laptop chargers etc are more important and then the unfortunate patients who receive cold porridge as a result -

Next I take a tray of hot toast around = One patient demands "I want it buttering and cutting into thin strips." I explain that she will either have to press the buzzer for someone else to come and do it or wait until I have finished delivering toast before it gets cold. "But I want it NOW!" she demands. Ok, so it's fine that everyone else will receive cold toast? that's ok with you is it?

Imagine more of the same throughout the day

"I can't get my phone working!" = well I'm taking care of a rather ill patient at the moment, it will have to wait." "that's it!! I'm making a complaint!!"

"I want you to wash me." = "I will help you but you have to wash what you can yourself." = "why?? its what you get paid for!!!" no actually - I get paid to help people back to independence and to care for those who genuinely can't do it themselves ... " - "Ive had no sleep!! I want you to wash me! I can barely move I'm in so much pain!!" (well walking down the stairs for a fag 10 minutes ago must have been agony then eh?)

I'm sorry, but could it not be said that sometimes, just sometimes certain patients are not always right and that as staff members we should not live in fear of one of these people complaining that we're not jumping through hoops to keep them happy? And no I've never had a complaint against me - I do that nursey thing of taking the abuse and maintaining a smile. Just lately I can't quite shake the notion that the NHS (and Britain in general) is so bothered about political correctness and ultimate customer satisfaction that it's actually counter productive. Why are we all so polite??!

[horsetowater]

Kudzu

^Horse
You told us to buy things from our own pockets.
We all read that correctly.^

I've explained quite clearly that's not what I meant, and if you have listened to the general gist of any of my posts I would certainly not advocate that. I'm saying that by absorbing the costs, financially and emotionally, you are letting the managers off scot free. I'm actually on your side.

Calling someone stupid is aggressive and nasty and designed to get ordinary people like me off this thread. If you want a bunch of people to agree with you and say, 'yes all patients are Fucktards (as Newjob so beautifully described them)' that's fine but those of you using degrading terms and aggressive language are simply bringing the nursing profession into more disrepute than it already is.

Channel your anger to those that deserve it, the people that have given you all this pain - the management. Filling out forms clearly isn't working.

[Babyroobs]

Can I ask those of you who have managed to escape the hell of being an NHS staff nurse, what jobs you have moved on to ? I am desperate to escape before my mental health crumbles completely, but have a large family and rely on the income / pension etc.

[horsetowater]

You just aren't reading what people are posting, are you horse? Never mind, carry on banging your drum and blaming the staff.

I'm not blaming staff I'm blaming management and I'm asking staff to blame them instead of taking it out on needy patients and their relatives.

I particularly don't like the aggressive and violent words being used here - it's not going to help your cause one bit. Reading these aggressive posts will only feed the prejudice of any managers or press.

People in power (government, managers etc) do what they do because they can. If it's wrong don't let them.

People without power, ie patients and their visitors are entirely at your mercy within a hospital setting. They can't do anything about your predicament. Sorry but that's the way it is.

If you stopped wasting your energy attacking the public and their complaints and moans (that will never change) you might have the energy left to actually change something.

[Kudzugirl]

We are blaming management.

I have never used abusive language to describe patients/clients. I don't use derogatory MH terminology about patients because I am a MH nurse.

We keep on blaming and approaching management. I have described the personal and professional costs I have incurred as a result.

Actually patients aren't powerless- the threat of a complaint (even when completely unreasonable) is ONE HELL of a lot of miss-placed power. If a patient can find the energy to complain about care, he can find the energy to listen to what we are saying and complain anout the right things.

And you are talking stupid because many of us on here have detailed the many ways we have tried (and continue to try) to change things. Tomorrow some of us are walking forty miles in a match to try to save local MH services. Still wasting our energy 'attacking the public?' are we?

Most of our spare time is spent campaigning, writing letters, tweeting and promoting local campaigns all under the threat of being disciplined and harassed by the local trust.

You are far more offensive than you realise, bleating on about this. YOU should be doing more too - it is YOUR NHS. Paid for through your taxes and NI. Why should it be all left to the exhausted staff?

[GirlsTimesThree]

But everyone is telling you that those who can do take it up with management and their lives are made hell because of it. People working in the NHS have no power to make changes either. They do blame management. And government.
No one is trying to be aggressive, just becoming frustrated because, despite trying to answer your reasonable questions, you seem unwilling or unable to see what's being said.
Maybe you should consider becoming an NHS manager?

[GirlsTimesThree]

Well said kudzu.

[Kudzugirl]

Girls It is all falling on a closed mind and heart

People should get off their asses and do something instead of blaming staff, ignoring what they are saying on here and endlessly repeating the same old, same old.

[CharlieSierra]

RedToothBrush has expressed it perfectly I feel. Sounds like you're in the wrong job OP, and I say this as an ex nurse and someone whose mother died of neglect in an NHS hospital whilst we were barred from entering due to Norovirus. Your post has really upset me.

[Kudzugirl]

Sorry for your loss Charlie but I don't think the ward 'used' Norovirus' as an excuse to hide neglect.

More like staff are of visitors not washing their hands and entering medical environments when they carry these illnesses. That is how they are mainly transmitted because when visiting is suspended, miraculously the outbreaks cease.

I for one am SICK of chasing dirty visitors who enter and leave wards without washing their hands. And before you ask, yes I challenge staff too if and when I see it.

[Newjobthankgod]

I think it is okay to use strong language. Patients and visitors demonstrate again and again that they have no idea what goes on, are very selfish, and abusive. Most of the complaints come from a lack of knowledge on the part of the patient/visitor. Crazy and ignorant.

Agree that no decisions are made at ward level. At all.

Yes google militant medical nurse.

[HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog]

Horse - yet again you are backtracking and choosing what you want to read instead of what is actually being said.

No-one said they are frustrated with needy, sick patients. They are saying that sometimes, demanding patients (who are able and treat nurses as their personal assistants) get in the way of a nurse attendingthose sick patients. They are the ones who threaten to complain where its not justified.

NOT genuine complaints of poor care FFS.

[TruffleOil]

horsetowater, people have expressed some strong views about some pretty clear examples of abuse they've endured at the hands of NHS "customers". Why aren't they permitted to vent?

I think you overestimate the clout an average NHS worker has over the beast. I also think it's not fair for you to blame someone for only bothering to carry out their job proficiently, taking steps to try to agitate the system (as described above), but falling short of being "extraordinary" i.e. storming the houses of Parliament. What exactly have you done lately that's so amazing?

[expatinscotland]

Expectations need to change, too, from the sounds of this thread.

I come from a country where you have to pay. For everything.

I'd never expect a teas body (FFS, this is 2014), ordering up like a restaurant, plush rooms without high fees up front.

Dd1 always had a private en suite room, but this was due to the nature of her leukaemia.

When we first arrived, we expected to, and were, placed on a ward. So I'd packed camping gear, expecting to sleep in a chair, coffee crystals, own washing stuff for us, snacks and bottled water, etc.

We were only in that bed for about half an hour before the little registrar from A&E came over to say a senior consultant from haematology was up to speak to me. To tell me DD1 had cancer. We were in a nice room within an hour.

Would rather have slept in the sleeping bag a couple of nights.

[NurseyWursey]

I'm so sorry expat

Update on how the government treats nurses with disdain and are continually trying to push the public against us. Now saying the 1% pay rise for all nurses would mean 6000 less nurses. Thus trying to slam us down for wanting a pay rise, and in turn making us seem selfish in the eyes of the public :

^Today the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, made comments in the House of Commons, arguing that awarding NHS staff a 1% pay uplift would come at the cost of 6,000 nursing posts and be damaging to patient care.
Dr Peter Carter, RCN Chief Executive & General Secretary, has said that this is ‘disingenuous’ and ‘an insult to hard-working nursing professionals’^

[Kudzugirl]

Yes if we all worked for free then think how many more nurses we could 'employ'...............

And MPs award themselves inflation busting pay rises.

Wankers.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Babyroobs - I now work in research in the NHS. I love it. It is very office based and it's not without its pressures, but I work flexi-hours, set days a week and I find it very rewarding making research projects happen.

The number 1 piece of advice I would give to any student nurses is to remember there is a whole world of nursing off the ward and (if possible) to not become reliant on unsociable hours pay. Even in good circumstances, ward work and the shift work that goes with it can burn you out and we're expected to work longer and longer now.

[RustyParker]

Thanks for that info Nursey.

I was just coming onto the thread to ask for advice on what we can include in our letters to hospital management regarding the problems highlighted by the nursing staff on this thread.

I was recently in hospital and the patient next to me was complaining about having to drink tap water! She took up so much nursing time complaining about such minor things when I saw nursing staff trying so hard to keep on top of everything. Things weren't "perfect" but I could see staff were busy and I tried to help out by asking for things only when approached or in plenty of time i.e. asking for the bedpan before I became desperate.

I think a pp who stated that patients revert to a sort of self-induced helplessness when in hospital has a point. I had to have my urine intake and output monitored and recorded: instead of leaving my pot in the slice room for the nurses to pour out and measure, I did it myself and recorded it on the sheet left in my room. The nurses were genuinely surprised and appreciative I had thought to do that which I thought was a shame it was such an uncommon occurence for patients not to think to do that for themselves.

For all the nursing staff on this thread

[TruffleOil]

I was recently in hospital and the patient next to me was complaining about having to drink tap water!

Did you tell her to get a grip? She would absolutely hate life in my tap-water only house.

[Kudzugirl]

Rusty thank YOU. It is really a good idea for nurse and patient to work together to bring about health, recovery or management of illness. We do tend to do this more proactively in psychiatry because historically the abuses and infantilising of the Mental Health patient means we have a lot to move on from. Involving the client/patient in care planning, risk management and wellness goals are key.

Even the sickest MH clients are encouraged to make their beds, dress, come to meals in a communal area, wash clothing and participate in ward life. The ability or willingness to engage in all these forms part of our assessment of and gaining knowledge of a persons functioning (sorry for jargon-y explanation). I wish other branches of nursing could do this more but the balancing of the demands of the patient, the job, the ward and the organisation is difficult. Add in expectations and

[HotDogHotDogHotDiggityDog]

Kudzugirl - we've had relatives refusing to fill out the getting to know you forms and butterfly scheme paperwork for the patient with dementia, only to then complain the patient is not getting individualized care.

I don't think people understand that we are not psychic.

We've had relatives kick off that we've given a vegetarian some meat, but not one of them thought to tell us their dietary requirements. How are we supposed to know?

It's so bloody frustrating.

I'm under the impression that the public seem to think nurses are a jack of all trades, and they are not actual human beings.

[RustyParker]

Truffle I offered her my squash but even that didn't suit her The nurses dealing with her all had the patience of a saint, if I wasn't so poorly I would have told her to stfu and drawn her curtain!

Kudzugirl Absolutely agree! I can see how encouraging everyday tasks leads to recovery. Cannot understand why those patients on the general wards aren't willing to engage in their own recovery or that of their loved ones. It must be so frustrating when capable patients abdicate responsibility for their own wellbeing. To me, it's basic manners to do something for myself that I'm more than capable of doing rather than leaving it to someone else, just because.

My sister recently died suddenly. She was in ICU for a few days before she passed and I cannot praise the care she received there enough. What I aso found was that we the family were cared for too. There was a real sense of working together and even supporting us while we were supporting my sister. The nursing staff really were angels and went above and beyond: I will never forget them and their kindness. The consultant also arranged time to meet me and debrief a few weeks later as part of my coming to terms process of sudden loss. We were so moved by the care and kindness that instead of flowers for the funeral, we asked for donations to ICU and just told them to spend how they see fit. We felt it was our way of saying thanks but I was also sad that wards have to raise money in this way.

A few friends of mine work at this hospital, which is rated as outstanding, so I know what goes on behind the scenes and it breaks my heart to know that such dedicated staff are taken for granted so much by management: skeleton staff, expected to work through breaks, no time to even use the toilet, working under an intense microscope and dealing with violent patients day in and day out with no back-up or support from management.

[Pobblewhohasnotoes]

There's no staff yet hospitals routinely offer voluntary redundancy and similar other methods of reducing staff. It's a joke.

You know what there's loads I would like to say on here but I can't.

[TruffleOil]

Rustyparker

[florascotia]

I was in hospital not that long ago (acute ward) and yes there are a lot of things I did not like - such as having to give detailed medical history to a too-busy, overtired and grumpy nurse in full hearing of the rest of the 4-bed (small-room) ward; one other patient was a close neighbour.

I was also horrified that - in spite of being wired up to a high-tech machine - I had to leap out of bed and accidentally disconnect myself to stop an older lady in the bed opposite, who was seriously confused after a stroke (yes, I could not avoid hearing her full medical history, too), trying to drink out of a whole teapot full of boiling-hot water. The nurse had left this teapot- rather than just one cup cooled by milk - within her reach.

I was furious, then I reflected that all the nurses were almost at the end of their 12-hour shifts. They were exhausted; their feet were killing them; they were not thinking straight; they were potentially dangerous.Then I blamed the NHS managers who organised such a system. Then I blamed the government who put the managers under such pressure that short-staffed 12-hour shifts were necessary.

[RustyParker]

Thank you TruffleOil