To think my friends drink too much?

[blanchedeveraux]

Firstly, I'd like to establish that I know it's none of my business, but a couple we are good friends with are drinking more and more every time we socialise with them and their 18 year old DS has been drinking illegally in pubs for about 3 years with fake ID and already has a huge beer gut.

Maybe I'm in the wrong but do you think this sounds like excessive alcohol consumption?

Met up at 12 noon for early lunch. Both of them drank 2 bottles of wine each with lunch. We then went to the pub (3pm by now) and by 7pm they had a further 8 pints of lager each. Me and DH were floored by this time (hadn't drunk nearly as much but were comparative lightweights). We got a cab home and I texted the following day to thank them for a good day out and asked how much longer they had stayed. She replied "Oh, we were there till midnight, I'm more lager than woman now ha ha".

Neither of them ever seem to suffer from hangovers or any obvious ill effects (although both are putting on a LOT of weight).

They are self employed and go out to the pub almost every night of the week.

They are good company and we only see them about once a month but every time they seem to be drinking more than ever.

Just wondered what others thought?

[expatinscotland]

'I just feel bad for British taxpayers who will be paying for the healthcare of idiots like this when the chickens finally come home to roost and they need a liver transplant or other major health interventions due to years of excessive drinking.'

FGS! You can take that line with just about every major or minor illness caused by or connected in any way with lifestyle. Do you feel sorry for the taxpayer when people live longer and longer due to modern medical interventions and then they get dementia and cost a bomb, because some may live on due to medical intervention and get dementia and some may not.

We do not know if and how these people will die.

[thenightsky]

'I just feel bad for British taxpayers who will be paying for the healthcare of idiots like this when the chickens finally come home to roost and they need a liver transplant or other major health interventions due to years of excessive drinking.'


Bloody hell. I've had more NHS care due to injuries from keeping fit than anything else! Should I be charged for that?

[AveryJessup]

No, I don't feel bad about cases like that Expat because those aren't self-inflicted. Any one of us, regardless of lifestyle, can live until 90 and end up with dementia. There's probably even a rare outlier case of a raging alcoholic who lives to be 90 and costs the NHS nothing.

You can't deny statistics though. Someone who pickles themselves with drink is choosing to do something that is known to have major health consequences. As I said in my post, this is no different to a chain-smoker or a person who eats a terrible diet. There are health consequences for abusing your body. Obesity and alcohol-related health problems are on the rise in the UK and that's a cost burden to the UK health system.

Just think about all the A&Es clogged up with idiots who've broken their heads open from falling down drunk at the weekends or getting in fights. It's a pathetic lifestyle that is a burden on society.

Then again I grew up in a teetotal household and only drink lightly myself (even less now as I'm pregnant...) so this is maybe a bias on my behalf. I just can't stand the heavy binge-drinking that goes on in our culture. I find it disgusting.

[AveryJessup]

If you've had accidents / injuries while exercising then that's just unfortunate, thenightsky. You can't be blamed for that.

Someone who has an accident because they're falling down blind drunk, on the other hand...

[expatinscotland]

'You can't deny statistics though. Someone who pickles themselves with drink is choosing to do something that is known to have major health consequences. As I said in my post, this is no different to a chain-smoker or a person who eats a terrible diet. There are health consequences for abusing your body. Obesity and alcohol-related health problems are on the rise in the UK and that's a cost burden to the UK health system.'

And so only the perfect ones are not a burden, living longer and longer, possibly costing the health system billions in nursing care. . .

[Bunbaker]

why are you defending the heavy drinkers expat?

Unfortunately we have an alcoholic in our family and it isn't pretty.

[NewtRipley]

Alcoholics are at much greater risk of sustaining head injuries either directly (falls, fights, car or motorbike accidents), then having sustained an brain injury, are at greater risk of those things happening again as a result of cognitive or personality changes resulting from the head injury.

It's a lovely vicious circle.

Used to work in a head injury service..

[expatinscotland]

'why are you defending the heavy drinkers expat?'

Why is it seen as 'defending' when you're of the opinion that adults are perfectly at liberty to do whatever the hell they please as long as it is legal and they are not harming others and that policing them is a) never going to work b) patronising, as I am sure most adults are well aware of the dangers of heavy drinking, bad diet, smoking, dogging, and other legal activities which can result in negative health consequences.

I think a lot of people get off on being preachy and patronising about other peoples' lifestyles because it gives them some sense that they have a measure of control over their futures. 'I eat right, I'll live longer.' 'I never smoked, I probably won't get lung cancer' and on and on.

[expatinscotland]

I used to smoke. I'm a vaper now. I don't live to bang on and on to smokers about how bad smoking is for the health, they all know that. It's a legal activity, they pay heavy tax to do what they do, they are adults.

I can't afford to drink often, and next to never in a pub or restaurant.

But others can and do. It's a big business, again, generating a lot of revenue.

If they are adults, as these people are, not getting into trouble with the law, driving, etc, what is to be gained by banging on about how horrible it is they drink so much? I'm sure they are aware that their habit may shorten their lives. Maybe they have a reason for that. Who knows?

Their body, their choice, and I feel that autonomy over one's body is sacrosanct, from reproductive choices to being able to choose to end one's life with medical assistance (not legal here . . . yet).

[SolidGoldBrass]

Expat: Yes, that's what it all boils down to, superstitious thinking. 'I don't drink or smoke or drive above the speed limit, therefore I will live forever ^as long as I make a big squealy noise about the wickedness of all the people who are not like me and won't obey me.'

[NewtRipley]

I don't want to live forever. I do want to avoid, as much as possible the kinds of lives and processes of dying I've seen first hand.

That's not superstitious, it is rational.

And I'm all for those other things you mentioned expat

[NewtRipley]

SGB

No one has squealed or whined.

[Bunbaker]

"and they are not harming others"

But is has harmed others in SIL's case. Her husband's brain is like that of someone with alzheimers. She is his carer. She has to watch him all the time, she can't go out, she can't relax, she has to stick him in respite every few weeks to get a break. That is the reality of how it affects other people.

Oh, and his children hate him and won't have anything to do with him, and DD is terrified of him.

[GarlicMarchHare]

I'm very sorry you're experiencing the effects of an addict in the family, Bunbaker. I'm even sorrier for the addict. But please will you stop conflating heavy drinking with alcoholism? For centuries, beer was the only safe drink for most people in Britain. Everybody drank it all day, children included. I'm sure they had their share of addicts, problem behaviours and alcohol-related illnesses, but they did well enough to provide us with our eventual existence.

An average person can metabolise half a pint of beer or a small glass of wine every hour. This varies widely between people of the same size - because different genetic profiles have differing levels of the 3 enzyme groups used in ethanol conversion - but the main point is that alcohol is much less likely to harm the body when consumed slowly enough to allow steady conversion, hence warnings against binge drinking.

Obv, you don't find out whether you're susceptible to alcohol addiction and/or organ damage until it's too late, so it's best not to be a heavy drinker in the first place. Plus, most people do at least a few regrettable things while drunk so, again, it's wise to plan your alcohol abuse. I'm not advocating heavy drinking. But I am reiterating that not all heavy drinkers are alcoholics (and not all alcoholics fuck their lives up; there are degrees of addiction & of ability to serve the habit.)

[expatinscotland]

Wasn't aware this thread was about your SIL, Bun, but about this OP's two friends who can obviously put it away.

If adults don't care that their habit, whatever it may be, or engagement in legal activity may result in their deaths from something horrendous (having worked in an adult hospice and then seen my child die from cancer and seen other children very near death with it, shortly before they died, I can assure you, it is never a pleasant process), then far be it from me to bang on and on about how they may be harming themselves on the internet, or even in real life.

I have a close relative who is very obese, it is causing her lots of problems, some of them potentially serious and possibly life-shortening, but she's well aware of this. I'm not here to police her eating, mention it to her, start threads of 'Does this person eat too much' so hundreds can pile in to vilify people who overeat, etc.

It's patently obvious she eats too much.

[takeiteasybuttakeit]

expat - my thoughts exactly. why start a thread 'is this too much to drink' when it clearly is and the OP says she doesn't judge, it isn't her business etc etc. Bun - sounds horrendous and obviously difficult for the family. I don't think anyone can regularly drink as much as the OP's friends w/o it having repurcussions for someone else. I just don't.

[TattyDevine]

Sorry to bump this up but I just wanted to say that the health issues linked to persistently drinking over the recommended amounts (which are pitifully small for a woman and not much better for a man ) are backed up by evidence based research, and whilst you can ignore them, its a gamble as to whether you can avoid them.

For me it wasn't so much liver damage that was a concern but when I heard the statistics about the increase in things like breast cancer that made me think a bit which is one of the reasons why I chose to take myself off to the doctor. So its good these things are known and publicised because it gives a person the choice to own their own health status, so to speak.

It does get a bit much though, everything is bad, anything vaguely fun and damn its just one of those boring facts of life. Some people choose to live life to the full regardless of the risks and that is their choice. So yes, the OP's friends are drinking far to much to have a good chance of having a long and healthy life, but if they want a shorter, happy life, or if they are lucky a longer happier (for them) life then it really is none of our business I guess! Each to their own.

[Evie2014]

This is a real "gossipy" thread and I don't think I like it. It's all "shock, horror, oh my god, that's terrible, tell us more…"

The two people in question, by her own account, have been kind and lovely to the OP and her husband, are good fun to be with, don't get aggressive or annoying, and don't expect anyone else to pay for their drinks.

I think it's a bit churlish to make them the subject of a MN drive-by, with everyone on here rubbernecking and expressing delighted shock at them and feeling better about their own drinking habits.

Yeah, it's a lot to drink- more than is healthy. Anyone should know that. The lifestyle of her "friends" is not impacting the OP's life. Actually by all accounts these people improve her life when she sees them. That's why I think it's not nice of the OP to accept their invitations and then hold them up on MN in return for the cheap thrill of getting lots of (gleefully) shocked responses on an AIBU thread.

[Bunbaker]

Don't you think it is human nature when anyone does anything out of the norm/to huge excess that people are going to talk about it?

[expatinscotland]

No. A lot of people honestly don't give a shit what other adults get up to.

[Bowlersarm]

No. I think it's a weird thing to start a thread about. Of course it's an excessive amount to drink. So what? Evie is totally correct with her post.

[CountessOfRule]

Female friend drank a week's recommended alcohol units over lunch... I'd be pretty alarmed by that to be honest.

I don't have a 2.5-pint capacity in my stomach (two 750ml bottles). I couldn't drink that much water. So even before you consider the alcohol content it's a lot to drink.


OP INBU to think her friends drink too much. They do. It might not be any of her business (although if that's normal for them I can't believe they're ever under the limit for driving) so what she should do about it is another question. But SINBU to think it.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

People always pile in with their own experiences though, don't they? Almost every thread always has somebody who has been through it worse, has seen worse, ad nauseum.

I'm surprised that some of the posters here don't seem to recognise that they post their own tales across other threads very, very often but that's the nature of a chat board.

People think what they think, they use their own reference points and they're not wrong to have an opinion. AIBU is gossip-central as is Chat and Relationships. It's no coincidence that those are the busiest boards here, is it?

[blanchedeveraux]

OP here. Evie if you don't like my thread and find it "gossipy" why don't you cease and desist from reading and contributing to it, rather than having a go at me and my friends, and other posters who've given me some perspective.

One of the main reasons I asked is because my father had a drinking problem in that he couldn't drink very much alcohol at all without becoming belligerent and falling over. Yet he was alcohol dependent. My brother drank huge quantities and never appeared drunk. He went tee total 10 years ago as he felt he was becoming dependent.

My own experience is that I enjoy a drink but it doesn't agree with me physically, as even after a small amount I can start to feel sick and giddy.

We are all different, we all have different capacities for alcohol. I was interested in others' opinions if this was a lot. Some people on the thread admitted that they could drink a similar amount, no problem.

I was under the impression I could post pretty much any question I liked here, if you don't like it you know what to do, don't you dear?

[BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte]

The bit where I think you might BU is where you say it's none of your business. Doesn't friendship kind of imply the need for a loving honesty? Or at least, if I was drinking that much (or doing that level of damage to myself) I would probably benefit from someone telling me...