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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to offer a different perspective on the "clique" thing

299 replies

CailinDana · 21/03/2014 15:18

I sympathise with people who struggle to make friends. It's hard, and loneliness is horrible. I've been in situations where I've struggled to make friends and it was extremely frustrating.

But. I always saw my lack of friends as my problem or the product of circumstances rather than the fault of "cliquey" others who wouldn't include me.

Aren't "cliques" just friendship groups that you don't happen to be part of? And surely it's not their duty to include you if they don't want to? It's up to them who they want to be friends with and it seems odd to get angry at them for not just insiscriminately including everyone.

Definitely, some peope are just Not Nice. But why want to be friends with them anyway? Everyone else is just bumbling along getting by. If they happen to have a group of friends they laugh with at the school gate, good for them.

Don't look to others to validate you. They just don't have the time or inclination to do that.

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RachelWatts · 21/03/2014 21:59

True, at least they weren't two-faced in any way!

The dirty looks may have been because of DS1's screaming, but he was 3 weeks old!

gordyslovesheep · 21/03/2014 22:00

I'm with you OP - I have never ever come across a clique in real life - I have come across close knit groups of friends and people who didn't like me - as well as people I didn't like - it's life

I honestly think a lot of the 'clique' stuff comes from either a belief that you are so wonderful everyone everywhere would just love you and those who don't must be bitches OR from seeing slights in everything

I am a cantankerous enough old twat that I am well aware lots of people don't want to be my best mate - and thick skinned enough to not really notice if people dont

bluepen · 21/03/2014 22:32

CailinDana. Do you think that you may have been in a clique once?

PortofinoRevisited · 21/03/2014 22:50

I have never done the school gate thing, but did move abroad where I knew no-one and it took at lot of effort to meet people. It is horrid when you try and people can't even be bothered to be civil to you. I was part of a NCT group once and it was obvious my face didn't fit. It can be extremely hurtful and I DO think it was really rude of them.

We organised a MN meetup in Brussels and I met some LOVELY people. We now have a FB group and try to extend a welcome to everyone who posts on here asking advice about moving. Of COURSE it is not obligatory that everyone has to like each other, but some solid friendships have formed. I would hate it if anyone came here feeling that they had no-one to talk to. It can be extremely isolating.

Original poster
CailinDana · 21/03/2014 23:10

I don't think so blue.

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Original poster
CailinDana · 21/03/2014 23:13

Rachel are you sure they were dirty looks? IME crying always draws looks, it seems automatic. Of course a group looking at you silently will always feel oppressive.

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PortofinoRevisited · 21/03/2014 23:22

The point is Cailin, is that they know this person is new and probably feels vulnerable, and not one of them makes any effort to engage, chat, make her feel welcome? That is HORRIBLE.

cheeseandfickle · 21/03/2014 23:23

Rachel, I think it's really mean that a group of them just sat there and watched you with a screaming newborn and didn't say a word. When my DCs were younger I always approached anyone and everyone at groups, especially if they were on their own and/or looked like they might be struggling with their little one.

As others have said, I think something like a toddler group is a place where I would try to get on with everyone and to just keep things as smooth and as friendly as possible. It's not really a place for people to arrange a meet up with their best buddies and ignore everyone else.

PortofinoRevisited · 21/03/2014 23:25

"Are you sure they were dirty looks" Well they may or more not have been. The idea that crying will "attract attention" will draw looks....well I am flabbergasted! Is this how you and your friends treat new mothers?

PortofinoRevisited · 21/03/2014 23:30

And how do you decide if you don't like someone without making the barest effort to speak to them?

Original poster
CailinDana · 21/03/2014 23:32

No of course not Portofino I've already said I run a toddler group and talk to everyone at every single session. I know the name of every single adult and child who has attended and that's over 70 people. I've been ignored by groups at surestart but it didn't bother me.

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cheeseandfickle · 21/03/2014 23:32

I agree with everything that Portofino has said.

Some of you on this thread seem very sure of your friendships and that you don't 'need' to make new friendships or get to know new people, but who knows what will happen in the future? You might get Wendied out of your current group of good friends. You might have a bad fall out with them and want no more to do with them, or vice versa. They might move away. One day you could be in the situation of wanting/needing to make new friends.

cheeseandfickle · 21/03/2014 23:33

It probably doesn't bother you though Cailin as you have already said that you are both confident and popular. The woman at the group Rachel attended may have been in a different situation and could have done with a friendly chat with someone, or even for someone to just bring her a coffee over whilst she fed her baby. It could have made all the difference to her day.

Original poster
CailinDana · 21/03/2014 23:37

I don't decide I don't like people without talking to them first.

There are two mums who come together to my group and speak to each other and me but no one else. That's fine by me. There is no requirement for anyone to interact with anyone else if they don't want to.

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cheeseandfickle · 21/03/2014 23:39

I guess I'd feel uncomfortable going along to a group and seeing anyone sitting alone with no one to talk to. It's no big deal or effort for me to have a quick chat with them. Everyone is different though, and like you say there is no requirement for anyone to interact with anyone else. It's just sometimes the nice, and decent thing to do

Original poster
CailinDana · 21/03/2014 23:41

Cheese do you talk often to strangers who you feel might need your company?

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trappedinsuburbia · 21/03/2014 23:45

I think its all other people's perceptions.
If I see a group talking I just presume they've been friends already and not just from school gate.
I'll quite happily chat to people I know if we're in the same part of playground, I wouldn't make a special effort to walk to the other end just to stand with someone.
I know some people just to pass the time with through sil, childminder or because they've said hello as the dcs are friendly.
I really don't get this clique or queen bee shite, im quite happy to stand on my own, I only arrive a minute or so before the bell anyway.

cheeseandfickle · 21/03/2014 23:46

I don't just approach random strangers in the street, no.

I just think, as someone else has mentioned, that a group is somewhere where it's important to try to get along with everyone and to create a nice atmosphere. Being at a group is different to, say, going to a soft play centre with a group of friends, or going to a restaurant.

Original poster
CailinDana · 21/03/2014 23:49

So if you went to surestart with a group of good friends would you go and talk to a person there on her own? Genuine question.

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cheeseandfickle · 21/03/2014 23:51

In all honesty yes I probably would, Cailin.

Especially if it was someone who looked like they could do with some company and a chat.

Nocomet · 21/03/2014 23:51

There is not instantly clicking with, not wanting to be best friends with, and there is being down right rude!

Talking over people, letting people interrupt when you are talking to them organising parties at toddlers when your the only person in the room not invited.

Behaviour we wouldn't tolerate in our DCs, but which seems absolutely fine amongst adult women.

trappedinsuburbia · 21/03/2014 23:53

If I was in that situation then of course I would make an effort, if only to get a cuddle off a newborn Grin
I wouldn't sit in a group in a room and leave someone isolated, thats just nasty!

Takenforgranted76 · 21/03/2014 23:53

Cheeseandfickle your statement said by counsellor has made me think. My peers at school definitely saw my insecurities and lack of confidence. I was too young and inexperienced to hide it as I try to do now.

I think that some women have never experienced being on the edge/outside of social groups so lack compassion for those that have.

Depression and lack of self esteem affects your perception. When a group of people laugh anywhere near me I have to convince myself they are not laughing at me.

I know some women who believe everyone loves them and enjoys their company. They are confident enough to feel they make a difference. They are treated accordingly. Other women struggle to feel accepted by others. The bullying I endured 20 odd years ago means I often feel I do not make a difference/have nothing to say worth listening to.

cheeseandfickle · 21/03/2014 23:55

TakenforGranted, I'm sorry to hear you had a horrible time at school :(

I totally agree that some women do believe everyone loves them. Many others then pick up on that vibe and treat them accordingly. Each of the queen bees that I have known have always had doting parents that spoil them rotten, which I think is one of the factors that makes someone into that type of person.

Original poster
CailinDana · 22/03/2014 00:01

Taken, it's a real chicken and egg situation I think. If you're anxious it can make you come across badly which puts pople off which makes you more anxious...

Btw I was bullied, sexually abused, raped, and have had two serious bouts of depression. Being confident doesn't mean you haven't experienced hardship.

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