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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be more than annoyed when people inform me my children need a good smack?

606 replies

Slightlyneuroricnat · 20/03/2014 12:02

It really winds me up.
Not so much the oldies who say " in our day I would have a got a whack for that " but people that can see I'm already having a tough time dealing with 2 toddlers, my eldest daughter is going through a phase ( I bloody hope ) of hitting everyone including me and we always have the same conversation, I don't hit you and you must not hit mummy, you've hurt me and now we are going home.
So we had this yesterday in a park and a lady informed me that I was " wishy washy " and what she actually needed was a good smack herself.
Am I being unreasonable to think she is an ignorant fool or am I some kind of martyr as I don't believe in hitting children?

OP posts:
SleepOhHowIMissYou · 25/03/2014 18:53

Hate baby reins Fefifo! Bought them as a deterrent. They worked! She didn't want to wear them as she "wasn't a baby", she was three.

Why doesn't your husband smack?

Atbeckandcall · 25/03/2014 18:58

I'm assuming you're being rational when writing your comments back to others, and your responses aren't in fact made in anger or frustration.

If I am to assume correctly then I personally find you rude, condescending and at times a bit of a bully. I hope that your children don't/will not ever feel belittled by your responses when they voice their opinions.

Please don't think I feel belittled though. I'm not a child and can put perspective on matters, even when an adult is responding to me in a manner similar to a petulant teenager.

You have done me a huge favour though my confirming my own attitudes to parenting are absolutely the right ones. Thank you.

Granted, some people haven't been gentle in their responses to you, which they probably should have done. That doesn't give anyone licence to retort in a derogatory manner though, I understand emotions are running high on this thread though.

Yes I did read your last post, found it incoherent and rambling tbh but I got the general idea.

I think I agree to a degree that naughty step/time out etc aren't always that practical and for some children not an enjoyable experience. I do fail to see though how in the long run they will look back on it with a notion that their parents abuses them.

I can honestly say that on the occasions I was told to stand in the corner for being naughty (rather than a smacked hand/backside) I don't look back at those moments and remember the feelings of hate/disrespect/humiliation/pain. I remember being grateful that they didn't hurt me and therefore respect that they controlled themselves enough. This was a much better motivation to behave than having a smack.

I don't there can be a black and white answer as to what discipline method works for all children. I think a child's individual personality has to come into some consideration. My own dd doesn't respond well to the naughty step at all and like your own dd Fefifo has a huge meltdown and defeats the whole object of it. So I had to work bloody hard to find another solution. Took a bit of trial and error but I resolved to never threatening smacking as a discipline.

I do understand completely that there are sometimes when pure rage takes over and a parent swipes at their child's hand/bottom etc, those are moment of pure rage for whatever reason. They aren't great but we, as humans aren't infallible, and as we forgive our children for the mistakes they make when they are angry or frustrated, they may as little as they might be able to understand. I'm not certain on this by any means but I certainly think it's easier to explain that a calculated one.

Makes me think of the legal terms mens rea and actus reus.

I fear I too have become waffly and drawn out, apologies.

Spero · 25/03/2014 19:04

I think you are right Atbeckandcall - the only times I was smacked as a child was by a parent who was very angry and frustrated. i remember it vividly as I didn't like it at all - but I wasn't traumatised by it.

Had one of my parents calmly and deliberately set out to hit me, in full control of their emotions, I think I would have been traumatised. I do find that very unpleasant. I think it would have made me very afraid.

KateShmate · 25/03/2014 19:25

Can I just ask parents who choose to smack - what happens if the 'bad behaviour' continues after you've smacked them? Or, as it seems to continually come up on smacking threads, if they run in the road again after being smacked and told not to?

Do you just keep smacking; getting harder and harder?

Fefifo · 25/03/2014 19:45

Hate baby reins Fefifo! Bought them as a deterrent. They worked! She didn't want to wear them as she "wasn't a baby", she was three.

Hmm, so you don't agree with reins, when used correctly but it is okay to bring them out as a deterrent to humiliate a three year old child? Do you hear yourself?

My husband doesn't smack but he has threatened to when at the end of his teather. What does this add to your argument? He doesn't disagree with smacking he just doesn't do it. I suspect it is because we have girls, if we had a boy I imagine he probably would.

Spero · 25/03/2014 19:52

you are getting more and more incoherent.

So threatening with baby reins = not ok.

But hitting a 3 year old, fine and dandy?

Do you hear yourself?

NewtRipley · 25/03/2014 19:52

He would hit boys but not girls?

You are unreal. Listen to yourself.

NewtRipley · 25/03/2014 19:53

X post

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 25/03/2014 19:58

Why is it not okay for a big man to hit a little girl Fefifo?

About the baby reins, I've never claimed to be perfect.

Fefifo · 25/03/2014 20:02

Hear myself newt? Do you imagine that me and my husband are one entity?

i never said it was not okay for a father to smack his daughter on the hand using minimum force sleep.

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 25/03/2014 20:05

But he obviously thinks it is. Why's that?

CurlyhairedAssassin · 25/03/2014 20:31

What is the reason you keep posting on this thread, Feiffo? There is absolutely NO WAY that non-smackers will ever see your point of view, you know that. So why on earth do you keep coming back on here to try to justify your actions, especially when you are in the minority? I don't get it. It's almost as if you're trying to convince yourself that you're right, because the non-smackers will never agree with you so I can only assume that you feel defensive about what you do or that you are enjoying the arguing?

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 25/03/2014 20:48

I suspect it's some sort of masochism that keeps Fefifo engaged.

She is the Samantha Brick of Mumsnet ;)

slithytove · 25/03/2014 21:13

I wonder when the DM will pick up on it and do their next smacking article, complete with MN quotes Grin

NeedsAsockamnesty · 25/03/2014 21:31

Are there people who think reins are abusive?

I've come across ones who think they are odd or don't look very nice usually comparing children to dogs but never not once in over 21 years of parenting and longer in child protection have I ever heard of them being referred to (in normal use) as abusive

Spero · 25/03/2014 21:36

I agree with fefifo to a limited extent - some disclipine techniques might cause individual children particular distress - I can see how the 'naughty step' might not work for all.

But no one here is saying or has ever said ever other technique apart from smacking is just ruddy brilliant and works all the time. Of course it doesn't. I think I said quite clearly that you had to chose different techniques depending on where you think the bad behaviour is coming from; is a child hungry, sleepy or being a wilful pain in the arse?

You also look at the age of the child, I think most toddlers are n't being 'naughty', they are just doing what comes naturally, being curious, exploring, too young to understand sharing re toys etc, etc. So a firm 'no' and a distraction is surely all you need? You can scoop them up and away from any dangerous situation.

But this is just getting very weird; she is determined to fly the flag for smacking at whatever cost. Which is not exactly helping her cause.

On a scale of 'abusive discipline' I would not put 'threatening with reins' anywhere near 'calmly hitting some time after the misbehaviour'. I think the latter has the potential to attract the attentions of the state as seriously emotionally abusive behaviour; wearing reins not so much.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 25/03/2014 21:38

It's probably against their human rights or something. Wink

Can't get my knickers in a twist about reins although i don't understand the need. I just always held the hands of mine. I can understand using them if you have multiple little ones to look after , if you're a childminder or you have twins or 2 very close in age . Or maybe a dog to walk as well. Otherwise doesn't holding their hand by busy roads do the job?

SleepOhHowIMissYou · 25/03/2014 21:52

I had a runner :)

The choice was hold hands (nope), hold pram (nope), walk nearby away from traffic (nope), she chose to leg it. I told her I would buy baby reins (she never had them as a baby) and said that was the fourth option if she continued legging it. I kept them in my bag. I only ever had to put them on her once and she got the message.

Could have belted her one I suppose though eh Fefifo?

slithytove · 25/03/2014 21:56

Or threatened to sleep. Because threatening violence is so much better then the act itself, doesn't create fear at all!

This thread is starting to frustrate me.

Fefifo · 25/03/2014 21:57

Beck's, this will probably be the first post that I have written without any mocking undertones whatsoever so please take it at face value.

You are clearly a very gentle and sensitive person. The world needs people like you. Your assertion that I'm not writing in anger or frustration is correct. I can be rude and condescending when arguing a poiint, that is just my and posters like newt's or Spero's particular style. I am patronising and rude to them, they are patronising and rude to me. We are all diverted by the throwing around of insults and hyperbole. It is probably what has kept the thread going for so long. We give it on the assumption we can take it, as we have given it. I hope that you can believe that I would not dream if belittling my children in the same way because I think that you genuinely, and really hope that my own specific children are okay. If I actually knew you I would have moderated my behaviour towards you because you are the kind of person who believes that there is no place for unkind words even between adults in the heat of debate. That was not intended as a dig. Despite being a different kind of person I genuinely respect people like you.

As relates to smacking, the thing that I do not understand is how you can marry this thinking that lashing out in temper, though horrible, is a natural human response to a child and yet a a child's right not to be smacked is as inviolable as an adults. Would you consider it okay to lash out at your mother if she pressed the right buttons? Or if your DH were to lash out at you? To me, this line of thinking alone completely invalidates the argument that using physical discipline with children is even a similar concept as using physical disciple with an adult. It cannot be morally absolutely wrong to hit a child but okay as long as the person had lost it. Once it is no longer morally wrong whatever judgement you choose to place on calmly smacking becomes irrelevant in its place as an acceptable way to discipline.

ShadowFall · 25/03/2014 21:58

Reins abusive?

I've heard people argue that they restrict the child's freedom, but this is the first time that I've heard reins described as abusive.

I'd suspect that most people don't agree that putting a child in reins is in the same league as smacking when it comes to potential abuse.

slithytove · 25/03/2014 22:12

Don't know whether it counts but IMO hitting anyone is wrong. Whether in the heat of the moment or calmly later.

Which I said in my first post.

I imagine to hit (anyone, not just children) out in anger is a natural (negative) human response for people, but we can't just give in to these natural responses. It is against the law for the most part.

I also imagine that people who feel that way have some issues and that not everyone does feel that way. I believe this response can come from conditioning and upbringing. This is based on my personal experience.

Fefifo · 25/03/2014 22:19

I don't know sleep. Ask him. Or do you seriously expect me to entertain the prospect of engaging in a secondary debate as to the validity of my husband's views on smacking in addition to this one?

*I suspect it's some sort of masochism that keeps Fefifo engaged.

She is the Samantha Brick of Mumsnet ;)*

I haven't laughed so loud since 'magnum opus'. Cracking form.

Fefifo · 25/03/2014 22:21

Spero, may I be allowed to respond or will you construe that as pursuing my vendetta?

NewtRipley · 25/03/2014 22:28

Hear yourself say that about your husband and expect us to believe you are not winding us up. I suspect you are enjoying yourself at other people's expense on this thread Fefifo and you know it. Samantha brick/Katie Hopkins is about right.

This has descended into bullshit.

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