To think, minimum wage, minimum effort

[angelos02]

If you think all I am worth is the absolute legal minimum you can pay me then you will get the absolute minimum I can get away with. Common sense really.

LaGuardia "OP, you should have studied harder. No qualifications += low paid jobs"

Ha, tell that to an underemployed graduate with excellent qualifications who is scraping by on minimum wage.

A whole generation of young people were brought up to believe that unless they studied hard and got great qualifications they'd end up flipping burgers. A minimum wage job was a story to scare them with.

Plenty of them ended up flipping burgers anyway. Despite multiple qualifications.

It's rude and erroneous to suggest that people in minimum wage jobs are/were lazy.

I earn a little above minimum wage. I worked full time before I had DS and worked my way up to a supervisor role with a £1 an hour pay rise. DP earns a decent wage but if I were to work full time I'd pretty much be working for nothing. So at the moment I work one day a week on one of DP's days off. On this one day a week I am solely in charge as no management work that day. I don't feel appreciated and can't remember the last time I was praised for something but I can co

Damn phone (why is the Send Message button on here just below the Done button on the iPhone?!)

I can count several times that I've been criticised for things not being to the standard of management when I'm in charge. I try my hardest to get everything done to their liking. Since going back after DS I am slowly but surely hating my job to the point that I'm in tears most weeks because I don't want to go. I'd love a well paid job that made me happy and where I felt valued, but I have zero qualifications past GCSE so I feel stuck.

puzzled can I just point out I've been arguing that people should work hard no matter what their pay. My comment was in response to the view that people in low paid jobs are uneducated and inexperienced.

stressed people accept low paid jobs because often the only other alternative is no job. Therefore they are being responsible in accepting it.

That's true usual, we need the people at the bottom, we need those in the middle, and we need those at the top. Society would fail if any of the links in the chain were missing.

But employers can get away with paying minimum wage because there is a huge surplus of people to fill the positions at the bottom.

Nothing will change until there is a labour shortage, and that's not likely to happen any time soon.

Exactly usual and woo

If jobs were paid on value to society, carers, cleaners etc would be on a fortune.

Sorry did you mean my attitude or..?

Ah right, yes. To be fair it's sad but I always saw myself at the bottom when I was a carer. I think it makes you feel that way because you're so undervalued in the monetary way. :(

I was talking about jobs at the bottom of the pay scale, not jobs that are at the bottom in terms of value or importance.

I completely agree with you about carers pay being disgraceful. I think it's a bit if a red herring though, because when I think of the sort of jobs that it's acceptable to advertise at NMW, I think of jobs that literally anyone with the physical ability could do. Things like stacking shelves and using a coffee machine.

Jobs like carers and childcare workers and TAs are not jobs that could be done by anyone. They require actual skills that not everyone has. They are valuable enough that they make a real difference to people's lives and if mistakes are made then there are serious consequences. These are not jobs that should only be able to command minimum wage, no matter how high minimum wage ever becomes.

The problem isn't NMW in itself, it's that there are jobs that are wrongly given NMW when they shouldn't be.

Op, do you have children who are cared for by someone else, eg in a nursery or have parents or grandparents who need help with from carers or in a nursing home? These people are probably only on minimum wage, how much effort should they out in?

But minimum wage is a pittance. its no wonder the benefits bill is so high when the pay levels are so low and the cost of living so high for so many people. My DH and I work hard, I am self employed on under min wage and DH works really hard for a bit more than minimum wage, but we both have a good work ethic and believe if you are being paid to do a job you should do it properly.

If a company pays minimum wage, then what they are in reality saying to you is that. If they could get away with paying you even less, they would.

If your business cannot afford to pay staff a living wage, then you don't have a viable business.

"when I think of the sort of jobs that it's acceptable to advertise at NMW, I think of jobs that literally anyone with the physical ability could do. Things like stacking shelves and using a coffee machine"

That may be what you think of WooWoo, but that doesn't reflect the range and disparity of minimum wage jobs at all. Lots of people in caring professions and education are paid minimum wage.

I also think it's quite disparaging to say that "literally anyone with the physical ability" could work in retail or hospitality. Lots of these jobs are incredibly physically demanding when performed over years and decades (much more so than most office workers imagine) and also require great customer service skills - which NOT everybody has, and involves internalising a lot of stress.

I disagree that "the problem isn't NMW in itself, it's that there are jobs that are wrongly given NMW when they shouldn't be". Lots of posters here want to argue that companies will only pay what the market will bear - so why should those free market principles apply to retail and hospitality staff, but not to carers and educators. If people want to blame low pay on supply and demand, then there's no wriggling out of it just for the jobs which you personally happen to sympathise with.

The fact is that the minimum wage is too low for anyone to live on adequately while working full time.

Nor do I agree that "nothing will change until there is a labour shortage". There is lots that the government/employers/civil society can do to improve things for low paid workers. Just introducing the minimum wage was a start. Sadly it was worth more in real terms when it was introduced than it is today, in 2014. It hasn't kept pace with inflation, and that really penalises people on very low incomes when the cost of living has shot so high.

I worked in a minimum wage job for a few years during university. It was at a well-known supermarket chain and I worked my arse off. They treated me like absolute shit in return.

Looking back, I am glad I did a good job. However I wish I hadn't let myself get treated like that. I wish I had done a terrible job, because that's all that supermarket deserved.

Nothing will change until there is a dire shortage of labour. It happened after WW1. It also happened after the Black Death in 1348. Probably many times in between but my sketchy history only stretches to those two events. There are so many jobs which are classified NMW which should not be.

You get what you pay for. Angelo, would you also add you pay peanuts you get monkeys? Both comments are equally offensive.

I would be horrified if I thought that I was viewed with such a lack of respect by my employers because I earn the minimum wage.

I don't earn much per hour but love my job and know I make valuable contribution to the children I work with. The hours suit and I can leave at the end of the day and switch off until I arrive again the next morning.

Sorry, haven't read previous posts as don't have time to go through 8 pages!

Till recently I worked for a small boutique shop, owned and run by one person, with three staff, all part time. I was on a few pence above min wage, as that was literally all my employer could afford. No, I most certainly did not put in the minimum effort, as I understood when I took the job that this was a tiny business and that was the situation.

I work with kids and get just above minimum wage. For me it's not about the money, it's about being part of a community that plays a part in shaping young lives. It's about making a difference to their day and being the person that listens, looks out to make sure they are happy and integrated with their peers and always has a smile and a kind word if it's needed. I love all of them, yep even the difficult ones and I consider it an immense privilege to be part of their growing up.
I could never get as much from any hugely paid desk job, and I. Know, because I've had some. This job enriches my life in a way money never could.

I'm aware that lots of people in caring professions and education earn minimum wage, I'm one of those people that has worked in both those areas and earns just over NMW.

I didn't say that anyone with the physical ability could work in retail or hospitality. I mentioned stacking shelves and making coffee, and I'm sure you are aware that the entire industries that are retail and hospitality involve a lot more than stacking shelves and making coffee.

Jobs that require customer service skills are jobs that require skills. Therefore I don't think those jobs should be set at NMW.

It's not all about what the market dictates IMO, because many of these jobs are not making profit for companies, they are paid for by the state just because they need to be done.

But as I already said, and you have disagreed with, I don't think anything will change as long as there is high unemployment and more people that need work than there are jobs to be done. There might be more that could be done, but that doesn't mean it will be.

That though Guinea is what employers play on. They know they can snap up people who feel like you do, who actually love working with children (or the elderly) and that they'll stay for job satisfaction rather than money.

My employers when I was a carer managed to not pay me hundreds of hours in extra work because I would often stay late because I knew they were short staffed, or I'd take someone to hospital and stay with them because I didn't want them going on their own. People who actually care about the people they're working with/for get played.

That was to Trebizon.

Joysmum you misread my post!

I was a sole employee with no prospects of aspiring to Chief Loo Cleaner .I was not a Litttle Chef loo cleaner.I was trying to inject a little humour into things, and obviously failing dismally!

Why do you have such a problem in getting that there were no other staff or customers to impress, and that there was no advancement ?