To think this mother should not have been arrested?

[KeinBock]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but this story is just so heartbreaking. The baby is seemingly being adopted against her mother's wishes. Surely any mother would kidnap their own child to prevent this from happening?

She - I had one client with a very low IQ. She tried to feed her baby by pushing him around a supermarket and expecting the baby to point at food he liked.

Very sadly her immediate family were very unsupportive and had serious problems of their own. The only reason that baby didn't die or be seriously hurt was because he was taken away from his mum.

Who was devastated. Who had committed no crime. But she couldnt care for a baby without 24 hour live in support and no one would pay for it. And even if that had been provided, the baby would have bonded with the carer, who would be performing all physical and emotional aspects of care.

Jeez spero that heartbreaking.

The worst one was a father who was represented by the Official Solicitor and who lived in supported accommodation. But the proceedings dragged on for so long he honestly thought he was being assessed and that he had a chance. When he realised he didn't, he was utterly, utterly heartbroken.

Again, he had committed no crime. But contact had to be very heavily supervised because neither parent could be safely left alone with their child.

We heard evidence about the feasibility or providing live in care and were told it wasn't in the child's best interest as no carer would commit to staying more than a few years and the child would not bond with his parents if someone else was doing the caring.

It is horribly sad. But sometimes we have to make hard decisions.

But what would happen to these children if they could not be removed until a crime had been committed? I.e they were seriously injured or dead?

That is what some people advocate. So I know they are putting the adult above the child and I don't agree with that.

Oh my god - I don't mind being called on opinion - but I was making a very specific complaint and I was told that yes emotional abuse is a crime - it probably falls under something else that catches it at a guess - I do not have crossed wires on this one. I am sure it is rarely prosecuted but stil.

It is heartbreaking

That post went wrong

I feel so sad reading these anecdotes, they are truly heartbreaking

It really doesn't matter if emotional abuse is a crime or if it's prosecuted.

That isn't the central argument. The main point is do you put the adults right not to be falsely accused above the child's right not to be abused?

And if you are saying that only crimes will count, what happens to the children in my two examples? You will have to wait for the parents to break a baby's leg during nappy changing?

She. I'm a detective,trust me it's not a crime. A quick google will tell you that.

it's awful isn't it Spero - I have had clients who just can't prioritise money - they spend everything on presents and 'stuff' then baby has no food or heating and ends up in hospital

then every single effort is made to help the parents - parenting classes, budgeting help - they refuse to go or change - child(ren) end up in care

no one want to take kids away - sometimes you have to no matter how 'loved' they are - because they need basics liked food, heat, clothing, stability, non violence etc as well as love

Yes, it is really sad.

Because what makes the difference in these cases is whether or not there is supportive families around. And so often, they have nobody or their own parents were abusive.

But these parents have not committed any crime and I cannot think of any reason why society would benefit from putting them on trial. So we take their kids away AND give them a criminal record ?

Or we don't reach the standard of proof for a criminal prosecution and they keep their children and very likely hurt them?

Google tells me you are wrong nicky

Re those stories Spero I don't agree with your view on the first but I'm too tired to type it all out and on the second if you are saying the baby was in physical danger then yes I would agree.

And what happens to their next child and next and next. Would we not be better putting the costly support services in place and allowing the carers to take a back seat and assist them to parent their children.

Then make that argument. Campaign for change. Get more funding for community support.

That would do much, much, much more for children and vulnerable families than saying no removal without a crime.

She I have read your link and can't see where it says it's an offence? From memory there is talk of making emotional abuse an offence but it's not at the moment.

And the link you posted referred to domestic incidents, not child protection.

I don't think that link proves what you think it does. But as I said, I don't think it is relevant.

Yes I have to agree one of the children I fostered there mum put them in a cab on her own no less and have the address to the driver on a bit of paper 40 miles away in the middle of the night the child was 2 at the time and disabled

Committed no crime but there are those who feel it's a travesty that mother did not get her child back

*also when the child did move in with us the only way mum would visits if ss paid for her fair at one point she was even trying to get them to buy her a car she attended only 4 contacts in 3 years and those 4 contacts was when she was havering her parenting assessment and between the child coming to us a court she managed to have another two children whom she lost to different ss

But of course we should of all waited for a crime to occur and made a 2 year old disabled child give evidence against there mother and be cross examined

Also why do you with children who are born to parents who are on drugs and are suffering withdrawal you clearly can't let them keep the baby however no crime has been committed

Any shame on any one for suggesting we keep children with neglectful for abusive parents go a be a foster carer once you. Have looked after a baby withdrawing from so many drugs it's easier for the nurse to tell you what they haven't got in there system listen to them scream like a fox and shake then tell me we should wait

And to those who say we should support families we would literally need 24 hour round the clock care

Which basically means someone else would be raising the children oh wait we have that already they are called foster carers

The problem is with support is you have to know how your living is not right and some families just won't have it that defeating in the corner in your house is not right and it's just ss out to get them

Some families won't have it that havering sex in the same room as your children while there watching tv is not on

*these are the behaviours that children have to endure not illegal but no child should have to live like this

Fusedog, it tears me up inside every time I read about what babies go through with withdrawal. Too close to home.

A woman (L) in my family had her children taken from her. If you ask her, the kids father & their friends, it was because they had one too many parties & got busted by the cops for being drunk while doing so.

If you ask the family caring for the girls, the social worker, the woman's parents, the fathers' parents, being drunk & partying doesn't even cover it. Yet L will insist to all and sundry that she is innocent & never did a thing wrong & that social workers are trying to steal her babies.

Those children are now in the permanent care of others.

These children need to be protected.

Emotional abuse to children does leave scares that take years to heal.

Why keep a child living in these conditions.

If a women posted about her emotionally abusive partner we would all be saying LTB, oh but he loves me. We would be saying how can he love you if he does xyz.

Children haven't got a voice, so SS step in and be that voice.

I wouldn't like to live in an unstable home where emotional/ physical abuse so why should a child.

Concerns were around violent relationship with partners. I went from violence at home from my sister, to a violent husband and then a violent partner. They picked up I struggled with discipline and boundaries (s weakness I pointed out anyway) and they that I had severe post natal depression.

The fact that I am still suffering nightmares where I wake up gasping for breath from reliving what I went through suggests I am still traumatized. I also suffered an eating disorder and whilst I am ok now I never got professional help for it.

The therapy I needed was intensive and is still on going 11 months since therapy with a year or so to continue through. Possibly longer.

I feel I am in a much better situation to look after my son than I was a year ago. However I know I still have issues that need dealing with and need grief counselling to deal with losing my previous two pregnancies to miscarriage my mum my dad and a close friend.

I do believe as hard as it is that was best for my ds was to be with those who could give him permanence as soon as possible. At that time it wasn't me nor his father.

I don't take drugs (though I do take medication for epilepsy and pnd)

OurMiracle1106 You are very brave to have posted that. I wish you all the luck in the world

I will also add should ds have been with me when my epilepsy returned (only ever previously night time fits and fit free for over 5 years) he would probably have been killed. Unfortunately I had my first of ny most recent episode in a road and as a result was hit by a car, shattering my ankle resulting in two hours of surgery to put a metal plate and pins in and a head injury.

I thank god that my son was in placement that day as I know had he been with me (which he always was) there is a very real possibility he would have been seriously hurt or killed.

Thank you badday

Thank you for posting that OurMiracle - it is very brave and it is very unusual.

I think too many people invest too much energy desperately trying to pretend there is nothing wrong. but you have identified your problems and have insight. I hope you are rewarded for your bravery and your future will reflect that.