To hate all 'Parenting Strategies'

[christmasmum]

I probably ABU but I absolutely loathe parenting strategy books. Friends recommend them, I foolishly think 'maybe this one will be different' and give it a go.

They all seem to make you want to talk to your child like you're a robot. Does any parent actually say things like this example quote...

You (cheery): It's bath time!
Child: I don’t want a bath. I hate baths. Go away!
You (breathe): It sounds like you’re really mad. You look really frustrated. What’s bothering you most? Can you help me understand?
Child: It’s not fair. You’re always bossing me.
You: So if I’m hearing you right, you’d like to make more decisions for yourself. You feel like you’re ready for more responsibility. Is that right?
Child: Yes!
You: Well, I’m so glad you told me. I had no idea you were feeling babied. Let’s put our heads together and come up with a solution.

If I spoke to my DD/DS like this they'd look at me like I had two heads and STILL wouldn't get in the bath.

I get the techniques, fine. Listen, reflect, don't lose your temper and thrown them in the bath headfirst. But is it realistic? Does anyone actually manage to sound like this with their kids after a long day when you just need them to get in the bloody bath and go to bed so mummy can drink gin?

best parenting strategy I've found is the threat to hoover up the lego. Oh and empathy patience and hugs.

I like reading all the books. Once I've done that, I feel I'm more able to follow my instinct, having hopefully taken from the books all the things that I thought were going to reasonably work with my particular child, and rejecting the rest of the crap (although I did know from the start that me and Gina Ford were never going to see eye to eye so I never read her). It's not for everyone but I'm a bookworm and a more cerebral than instinctive person so I feel more prepared having done some research.
e.g. Like the fact that I didn't want to smack, but having been smacked as a child, I didn't actually know exactly what my alternative strategy was going to be, and I needed a bit of a mind shift in how I approached discipline. So reading up on it for me was absolutely necessary.

DD1 is still only 2.8 so counting to 5 and ignoring tantrums is still my best strategy so far!

I think they are afraid that they won't be loved,or even liked, if they put their foot down. There are posters who are in tears if their child says they don't love them any more or they love granny or daddy better! They take it seriously.

A lot of these strategies involve mother putting herself out, mother being the pack horse etc and it makes for a very poor role model.
My favourite line was 'you will thank me when you are older'.

I think the pussy-footing and giving in isn't always in order to be liked. In some cases the child has a personality that is plain difficult and they will ruin things for everybody else if they don't get their way. My sister was like that. If things weren't to her liking, then sulking, tantrumming, huffs ensued so that a day out would be completely spoiled. Hence my mother danced around her in order to preserve a good atmosphere. This persisted through adulthood.

Now, I always vowed I would never do this with my dcs. But with dd, I catch myself doing the very same thing. It is so difficult not to fall into the "if that dc is happy, then everyone's happy; if that dc is cross, then noone is happy."

I think what parenting strategies - both from books and courses - taught me is "choose your battles" and also a bit about children's developing brains. Basically, my expectations of rational behaviour and empathy were waaaaayy too high. (DS1 has ASD but lots of NT children are similar at 2 and 3). Parenting strategies gave me the realisation that my 3 year old was still very tiny and that expecting him to understand about the coat thing was too much. If we put on coats on the top step rather than in the house, for example, does it matter?

Also - parenting books taught me that my children are not robots and expecting mindless obedience over everything is going to make me unhappy, and them. So now rather than bellowing "you. Will. Obeeeeeeey" I find out what is stopping them and work around it. This involves more negotiation than I expected to be doing, but it also involves less tantrumming and - ultimately - the children doing as they are told more often.

Before "how to talk so children ..." I was on the verge of becoming a abusive parent. My strategy was "get a little bit cross, get crosser still... Get terrifying... Still not happening..."

I'm prepared to walk away from a tantruming 4yo in a public place, I really don't give a shit if other people look on it dimly. When the only thing feeding the tantrum is attention, and the only thing to stop it is to remove the attention, you do what you have to do. I just stand further away towards the exit/slightly behind something if possible (so that I can still see her but she's not sure she's still got my attention) and wait.

Obviously this tactic only works if it's a public space with only one exit!

What else to do? I could try negotiating with her but if it's a tantrum, it's because she's tired and doesn't want to listen so it fuels the tantrum further; I could pick her up and carry her out kicking and screaming, but then I wouldn't have a hand free for the 2yo, who's not often in the buggy any more.

The main problem with the parenting books is that they all assume that you are looking after only one child at any one time. Siblings mentioned in the books are either considerably older (”try enlisting their help in a mentor role") or newborn babies (”put the baby in a sling to leave your hands free to deal with the tantruming child, and to give them as much attention as possible”). None of them acknowledge the possibility that you're dealing with two children between the ages of 18m and 5, both able to run away, both able to argue back, and both wanting a LOT of attention - as well as being intelligent enough to collude/react to each other.

Meanwhile the biggest cause of the problems is school - too much, too young. DD is 4.7, in YR, and is totally shattered. Even her friends 10 or 11 months older than her are coming out of the classroom and having meltdowns. The school's great, the teacher's fantastic (and understanding/sympathetic - has already suggested that any problems getting ready for school should be dealt with by bringing the DC in pjs and handing over a bag of clothes); there are just too many of them in not enough space with too much to try to achieve each day/week/term.

And YY to hoovering up Lego/Playmobil/whatever!

That's what I don't get about some of these "strategies"
Like the one that suggests you "wait until the child is ready" to get dressed or get in the car.

Really? When you have another child to get to school, yourself to work etc you are supposed to wait 46 minutes for that DC to "decide"?

I've honestly never heard anything so ridiculous

My strategy was "get in the car. Now. Don't argue. Just do it"

My most used phrase to my teenagers at the moment is "that was not a request or an invitation to debate. It was an instruction. So go and do it. Now"

hey

I think you have nailed it really.

Haven't read whole thread as on phone. All the things I've read either assume the kids to stupid to see what your actually doing. Or are impossible to actually do in that thing called real life.

My dd sees through everything. She doesn't care what she looses and can hold a grudge alllllll day and more.

The things that would help the most? More sleep, fresh air, ability to just drop what you are doing go home and sit in jammies eating crap.

But life gets in the way of that. Work, school, home work, shopping and life in general. Stuff that can't wait, or just be dropped.

100% agree with Hey too.

Kids can be manipulative I don't think underestimating them helps either.

And as for the waiting quietly beside you while their sibling stops. Pah!!

Kids can tantrum for hours!!!

:o

I disagree that the majority of tantrums are caused by tiredness. Some are, when dc are little. I know a few people who always trot out "oh, he/she is really tired" when their kids i whining or screaming. Er, no, he/she is manipulating you because he/she is not getting what he/she wants because you always give in to avoid confrontation! Dd's best friend does this all the time for her mum - she is 8! And always lovely for me.

An 8yo still doing that will turn into a 12yo (another friend's dc) using more subtle but equally manipulative techniques to get what she wants.

I like both of these mums very much, but find it difficult to be around them with dcs for any length of time. It has always puzzled me that nice, intelligent women would let themselves be ruled by a child. They are not interested in reading any parenting books but instinct is not really working from what I can see.

I never thought my dcs were manipulative... or had tantrums.
dc2 had AS meltdowns (not the same). Both have had angry outbursts (just as adults do).

But I don't think that thinking about them in such a negative way is helpful at all. Thinking that someone is manipulating me makes me want to retaliate or just say no regardless of the circumstances. Thinking that I have a dc who is trying hard to get X, maybe using ways that aren't that appropriate makes want to teach him/her and think if the request was actually acceptable.
As a parent, I want to be there to teach my dcs.

Of course they are manipulative! And who can blame them - we are selfish beings after all, and have to learn to fit in with others and compromise. My dcs certainly have trouble with that and have to be firmly reminded that it's not all about them. It's not negative, just realistic.

It's not thinking about them in a negative way though. It's not "who they are" it's an aspect of their behaviour at that particular time. You don't have to think of them negatively to realise that they are manipulating you.

Using inappropriate behaviour regardless of cost for personal gain is pretty much the definition of manipulation. I don't see how not using one word changes how you deal with the same behaviour

One actually I think you are right in some ways for older children like the ones you are talking about. At 8 or 12yo, its a different kettle of fish.

At 3yo? No they aren't manipulative. They will start by having an angry outbursts. Some might have more of them than others .

The issue, you are right, is that, if the parent gives in each time, then they have taught the child that tis is the right way to get X or Y. And then the parent has helpfully taught them to be manipulative. As a child, I want to hope that being manipulative isn't part of their temperament as such iyswim.

x posts one...

I would stand by my 'you are using a technique that isn't appropriate and I am going to teach you a better way to do things' rather than 'you are just being manipulative and I am going to clamp on that behaviour'

Well yes temperament is something you can't do anything about. But the 8yo I'm talking about actually has a lovely, kind, happy nature and her mum is the only one she manipulates with whining and crying. She has learned it through 8 years of that particular technique working on her mum, who superficially comes across as confident but actually has massive insecurities. I can see how all of this has come about obviously, but still don't get why she lets it continue.

cross posts again

or maybe crossed not cross - I am not cross