To hate all 'Parenting Strategies'

[christmasmum]

I probably ABU but I absolutely loathe parenting strategy books. Friends recommend them, I foolishly think 'maybe this one will be different' and give it a go.

They all seem to make you want to talk to your child like you're a robot. Does any parent actually say things like this example quote...

You (cheery): It's bath time!
Child: I don’t want a bath. I hate baths. Go away!
You (breathe): It sounds like you’re really mad. You look really frustrated. What’s bothering you most? Can you help me understand?
Child: It’s not fair. You’re always bossing me.
You: So if I’m hearing you right, you’d like to make more decisions for yourself. You feel like you’re ready for more responsibility. Is that right?
Child: Yes!
You: Well, I’m so glad you told me. I had no idea you were feeling babied. Let’s put our heads together and come up with a solution.

If I spoke to my DD/DS like this they'd look at me like I had two heads and STILL wouldn't get in the bath.

I get the techniques, fine. Listen, reflect, don't lose your temper and thrown them in the bath headfirst. But is it realistic? Does anyone actually manage to sound like this with their kids after a long day when you just need them to get in the bloody bath and go to bed so mummy can drink gin?

I think we've all done things we're ashamed of when at the end of our tether. I wouldn't call myself proud of doing it at all, but I wouldn't (personally) say it's as bad as smacking, dousing in cold water or even forcibly confining to a room -all of which I've seen in a few parenting books, as it happens.

Possibly more for the parenting threads, but what do people do when they get to 3 and the child hasn't responded?

despite an awful lot of strategies (some home made, some cobbled together from others' suggestions) DD1 is still impulsive and a bit naughty, although she is a billion times better than she was. She's the kind of kid who will touch things, mess with her food etc etc no matter how many times you discipline her about it. She is an awkward combination of stubborn and sensitive and needs clearly articulated boundaries. These days I mostly only have to start counting for her to comply…but it has taken an awful lot of hard work to get to this point. I suppose the books give you HOPE that something might work!

I think it's fine to go out with a child refusing to put their coat on though delphinium, let them see/feel how cold it is, and then put it on outside the door. This was quite common with us and it worked OK for me!

• I think someone else already mentioned it.

Children aren't great at thinking ahead are they ?

I'm a shouter, I was brought up by two shouters, I have a DS who is petrified of shouting. As evidenced yesterday when I was ill and he wasn't listening, so guess what? I shouted. And DS did what I wanted him to do, but because he was afraid of me.

Now, I was ill, so I recognise I got to my trigger point far, far earlier than I should have or normally would, so I'm not beating myself up for that. But reading parenting books have taught me lots of different techniques.

Not all of which work, but none of which involve shouting.

So hey, I thought that made me a great parent, but apparently I should just sack all that off because strategies aren't cool

(I do realise the majority of this thread is good natured, but some of the 'they just do what I say' posts are verging on smuggeriness. Some of us aren't natural parents. And even natural parents get it wrong sometimes)

Did anyone say they'd taken them out without clothes?

Taking them out without their wearing a coat, yes, that seems perfectly normal. If they are sure they are warm enough then fair play to them; if we're going out for a while I'll bring the coat along, or if we're just popping out for a bit then they can get cold and wish they'd brought a coat (or they can be right, and they were indeed fine without a coat. It does happen).

And when DS was in Reception we did check with the school secretary in front of him that it would be fine to deliver him to school in his pyjamas if he wouldn't put his uniform on in the morning (she said yes, of course ). Strangely enough it was much easier to get him dressed in the mornings after that...

Ooh I don't think our receptionist would have played along, she was a snotty cow!

Although to be fair for the amount of people saying it's terrible it's funny that it's the first advice you get on any dressing-refusing small child thread. "Oh threaten to take them in their pyjamas. And do it!!"

Maybe it works better if you have a car. When you walk to school and it's January it doesn't seem such a fair choice then...

I have to say the singularly most troubled children I have ever met were the offspring of 2 child psychiatrists.

the older one was a naughty nightmare, the second was mute and the third was cruel to animals and other kids.

quite frightening really.

however these parents were only too eager to share their superior parenting skills with the rest of us. Barmy.

Is the first not what most people do though? I only saw one person saying that they put a child in the bath fully clothed and they didn't give the context. I agree it sounds horrible but I can see how a parent might get to the end of their tether and then later feel that it wasn't their finest hour.

If you were referring to my post, I haven't actually done that, or had the urge to do so, it was an example. The closest actual urge I've had was to physically throw my child into bed, which I controlled because I recognised that it could really hurt and frighten him to throw him. And then I sought advice and "strategies", because my anger was getting in the way of my best intentions and my less-extreme instincts weren't getting me anywhere.

Did anyone say they'd taken them out without clothes?

No but it turns up in parenting strategies. Even taking the coat means that mother has to carry extra. Why not just tell them they need a coat and if they don't want to wear it that is OK but they are the one to carry it.

I have to say the singularly most troubled children I have ever met were the offspring of 2 child psychiatrists

I have found the same and it makes me very cynical, I would like to see the children of the 'experts' who write the books before deciding if they are worth reading!

I haven't read all this thread, but I have found some strategies in super nanny work, my problem is I can't always remember what she says especially in the heat of the moment...and I can't seem to read and retain it all. I would be interested to know how well families fair 2 and 3 years after being on super nanny. I also think most books are far to boring and long to go through the authors forget that the luxury of reading is pretty much a thing of the past...certainly whilst I have small children! I also think living in such a judgmental society is helpful. I have often read on here, sorry mums netters, that people post about shouting parents and unruley children, but what hasn't been witnessed is the whole family dynamic, eg lack of sleep, worry about Ill health, worry about finances, worry about DP being unfaithful ect, then add in a misbehaving toddler and its not surprising parents sometimes get shouty or arsey with their children. (And yes I am one of those shouty parents...I hate myself at doing it, but sometimes I am so knackered the last thing I need is an arguing tot... ,
It also depends on child in my case DD is just a nightmare, she literally will have me in tears! Thankfully DS is really easy, and truth DS is very easy to parent. DD is incredibly hard to parent as she argues / ignores and refuses at every possible turn!

Oh heck not helpful that should read, living in a judgemental society is NOT helpful!!

Some of us aren't natural parents
Yes and also you might be in a different situation than the one you were brought up.
Eg I am an only child. I have 2 dcs. It sounded logical to me to read about siblings and raising 2+ children as I had no personnal experience of it.

Or people have a big extended family so have been looking after young cousins etc before having their own dcs. So they have seen, as adults, what can be done, good or bad. And others have just their own experience to by, not always good. Or they want to do it another way (eg no shouting).

It's all well and good to say 'I knew it already' but not everyone does. 'I never shout' really???? Never ever? Say that the writers are just smugg and unreliable ... Just to do exactly the same thing by saying that 'by following their instinct as a parent, they already know what to do, just like this so no one should ever need a parenting book'

I think that's fair Delphinium for older children say 5+, but young ones really can't usually make the connection between it being cold outside when they are nice and warm inside. And what do you do when they refuse to wear or carry it? That's what DS used to do. Now he's older I have more success getting him to carry things himself but he would quite happily leave the coat at home if I gave him the choice, which I don't think it's fair to do if we're going to be out for a long time because he doesn't have the forward thinking yet to reason that he might want it later. When he's older if he wants to leave it at home then I might let him make that discovery for himself but not at 5.

I think the coat is OK, it is when it goes further than that and you take them out in mid winter without being properly dressed, so that they decide for themselves that you were right!

But if you need to go out and the alternative is to forcibly dress them and the scenario happens repeatedly is it really the worst choice?

ds had real issues with understanding consequences, right through into junior school so this sort of scenario was for us an everyday one. The standard 'strategies' often didn't work for us not bribery, threats, reward charts, 1,2,3, 'just do it', shouting, explaining etc. If he didn't want to do something then he wasn't going to do it, and if you pushed it too far the outcome might well be an hour of full blown tantrum.

I opted for forcible dressing rather than natural consequences, but maybe taking him out in the cold might have been more effective. Who knows, and if I had only had to do that once then that would have been a result really. What I suspect we really needed were the sort of strategies that help children with AS as it was AS type traits that were an issue for us (so things like wall charts showing the steps that needed to be done in order to go out, advance warning of change etc).

If I had just had compliant dd then I would have been one smug mother of a toddler.

If they have SN you may need different tactics. I just think there are better ways with very small children than taking them out in vest and pants and bare feet and saying 'told you so!'

I don't think anybody has said they have done that though. I think this is a bit of a straw man to be honest.

Oh he is mostly NT, just was a bit of a late developer on some fronts. Plus with very small children how do you know if they have SN or not? Most diagnosis aren't made until they are a fair bit past toddler age.

Is it the end of the world to walk down the road in your pants and vest? I'm not so sure. Certainly parenting approaches seemed a bit more 'robust' in the past. Things like walking away from your tantruming toddler (in public spaces) seemed to be more acceptable a generation ago, but would now be considered very dimly.

nb I'm assuming that the clothes are easily on hand and that the child puts them on fairly swiftly.

and yes it probably is a straw man. I just sometimes think that we've gone a bit too far down the child centredness approach. Like when our nursery told us that they carefully held ds's head when he tantrummed in case he hurt himself. Of course I wanted to know that he couldn't cause himself serious harm, but I do think that they were being slightly ridiculous.

I really don't want to get bogged down in what was a throw away remark. I personally wouldn't do with a very small child what I wouldn't with an older child, just because they are little and I can, but other people might feel differently. It is up to you.

Oops I didn't know it wasn't acceptable to walk away from a tantruming toddler done that before too I must be a really shockingly bad parent!