To hate all 'Parenting Strategies'

[christmasmum]

I probably ABU but I absolutely loathe parenting strategy books. Friends recommend them, I foolishly think 'maybe this one will be different' and give it a go.

They all seem to make you want to talk to your child like you're a robot. Does any parent actually say things like this example quote...

You (cheery): It's bath time!
Child: I don’t want a bath. I hate baths. Go away!
You (breathe): It sounds like you’re really mad. You look really frustrated. What’s bothering you most? Can you help me understand?
Child: It’s not fair. You’re always bossing me.
You: So if I’m hearing you right, you’d like to make more decisions for yourself. You feel like you’re ready for more responsibility. Is that right?
Child: Yes!
You: Well, I’m so glad you told me. I had no idea you were feeling babied. Let’s put our heads together and come up with a solution.

If I spoke to my DD/DS like this they'd look at me like I had two heads and STILL wouldn't get in the bath.

I get the techniques, fine. Listen, reflect, don't lose your temper and thrown them in the bath headfirst. But is it realistic? Does anyone actually manage to sound like this with their kids after a long day when you just need them to get in the bloody bath and go to bed so mummy can drink gin?

[OpalQuartz]

If everything is going swimmingly with parenting, then people don't need books. If people are finding an aspect of parenting hard then they can be quite useful as they help you think of ways of approaching things in a different way.

I think parenting is used as a verb now because previously there was "mothering" or "fathering." Mothering tends to indicate "nurturing" a child, whereas fathering a child tends to mean "getting the mother pregnant" rather than actually looking after the child.

[rhetorician]

There's an awful lot of good sense and excellent advice on this thread. I think parenting books fail to acknowledge that we are human, that the combination of my desire for order does not sit well with my DDs profound d messiness. So I have to work out a way that we can manage this incompatibility of character (we get on great in every other way) in a way that is not c source of undue conflict, or spirals into other aspects of our lives.

[BeCool]

I've never read a parenting book. The Oscar Wilde quote is about where I am at. It's worked really well with DD1.

HOWEVER DD2 is nearly 3. She is the stubbornest child - even my CM and her co CM's tell me she is the stubbornest child they have ever met. She can be exceedlingly stubborn.

Counting to 5 is NOTHING to her. Nothing at all. It is merely a challenge for her to see how scornfully she can glare at me. Sticker chart is having mild success.

Still I will start a thread on MN asking for help before I go down the lines of the example in the OP.

[Thetallesttower]

BeCool my first was like that. When I had my second and I started counting and got to 2 before she did as asked I was just astonished and realised why some parents find it easy! My first would shout 'you can count to a million for all I care, I'm not doing XYZ' and if put on the naughty step and asked to say sorry would sit there for a couple of hours (only once did I do this!)

I did use time out though with her (in her bedroom), and what I found most effective was to get in there very very early with a warning and a follow-through. None of this ignoring, distracting- if she was heading towards bad behaviour (e.g. hitting her sister/pulling over the CD's/drawing on the walls) then I stepped in immediately with an immediate warning then sanction. It only took about two time outs for her to get that this was no messing mummy (not like the ineffective mummy who had tried to ignore these things, distract, reason etc as the HV had suggested). It took me a while to work it out, and for a sensitive child, this would be a disaster leaping in on any minor infraction, but my dd seemed to find it much easier to cope with if things didn't escalate to where she was beyond reason and in full stubborn mode.

I'm not saying it worked forever, she's still a bit challenging even now, but what she seems to need is a very strong reassertion of the boundaries, whereas this doesn't come naturally to me and my second dd needs much more subtle, emotionally responsive handling if she's upset/stressed.

It is trying though, I remember!

[BertieBotts]

The thing is though that some Americans, especially Californians, do actually talk like that. It just sounds weird to our British ears because it's not normal to us. I do tend to avoid the sugary Walton speak but I do find it helpful to acknowledge feelings and try to see what's behind a behaviour and/or get DS to help work out a solution so there

BTW every example of "I don't use a strategy, I just say this!" is, er, a strategy Unless you say totally random things every time you're using some kind of strategy.

Plus it's nice for those of us whose instinct is some combination of "Do you want to have a bath?" "No" "Er..... please??" or "Get in the bath right now you little ungrateful sod" - clearly neither of those work or are helpful. Sometimes it's nice to have some ideas of different strategies you can use.

The one I did hate though is the one where the ultimate final resort is supposed to be to gently take your child by the hand, say "Thank you for showing me that you need help with this!" and then help them to do whatever it is you want them to do. Meanwhile in the real world, millions of children escalate their tantrums "MY - DON'T - WANT - HELP!!!!"

[BertieBotts]

DS' American friend at kindergarten cracks me up, he's just 4 and he literally talks like the kids in these books. He once left something at our house and I didn't notice to bring it in on Monday and he had this really hurt expression and said "But you guys... I left that with you. It's mine." I felt really bad! He is very very sweet, and far more expressive than most British 3 or 4 year olds I know.

[Clutterbugsmum]

My dh used to talk to dd2 like this, i use mumble under my stop talking to like that she's 2 may talk like she's swallowed the dictionary but she two. In louder voice get in the bath now!. In she got.

[steppingintothecanineunknown]

I am going to fess up to being involved in the business of parenting books...not going to reveal how. There are very few that sell in any number these days. The few that do are the likes of GF, How to Talk and then one or two others where a media storm is created. French Children don't etc. is a good example of that. Why don't they sell...maybe because of the likes of mumsnet and information overload?

I agree that the types of people who need parenting books most, most probably won't buy them and classes can be more effective there.

It is a fine line for a parenting author to tread between showing confidence in their approach and acknowledging that some children won't fit the pattern. My favourite book has a mix of strategies to give parents ideas to pick from, rather than a one-size-fits-all way but then that is less definitive.

As a parent I would read a handful of books and pick and choose ideas from each, although hat relies on having spare time to do so. Hard for any single book to do it all for all children imho.

[BeCool]

TheTallestTower that makes good sense - thank you for sharing.
DD1 is very sensitive. DD2 needs much stronger boundaries. Distraction can work to a point but only is she is ready IYKWIM.

I have been using time out but it's not great - she just won't stay put & it ends up in a head on challenge. Again it worked well for DD1 to "take some time to gather herself together". I'm still trying it with DD2 - I've not abandoned it completely.

Thankfully she is usually the most charming and lovely child when she isn't kicking off - this morning it was because when I brushed her very curly hair she then looked in the mirror and was shocked/outraged that I didn't "brush it long" - WTF??

[BeCool]

I have a friend who must have upwards of 2 dozen parenting books on her bookshelf. She is endlessly explaining and negotiating with her DCs using this faux soothing voice and empathetic head-tilts... Yet, both her DCs are dyed-in-the-wool brats

Oh do we have the same friend?

I fear this is an all to common scenario. I end up fairly quickly distancing myself from such people - they are excruciating to spend too much time around.

[BeCool]

And this (now ex) friend would never take her kids anywhere or do anything with them as she was in fear of what horrid behaviour they would indulge in while she nodded and faux-soothed away in the background.

I'm proud I can take my 2 pretty much anywhere and not only have lots of fun together doing all kinds of things, but feel we can go back afterwards or we will get invited back (yes even the dreadfully stubborn 2yo).

[BeCool]

[DiddlePlays]

But the problem isn't with the books. It's with the parent and the way they are using the tools. There are times for negotiation and time to just get going.
There are times when you want to listen to your child worries and there are times to show them that there is nothing to worry about but just doing things.

Trying to negotiate all the time us as wrong as never negotiating with your child.

It's not the books that are wrong. It's the way some peoe interpretate them.

As for 'I've always follow my intuition and I am always right'. Boasting much

[Delphiniumsblue]

I think that dumping them clothes in the bath is wrong, as is taking them out without clothes, just to prove you are right. You are the adult and you are responsible for getting them appropriately dressed etc. You can't get away with it for most people, so I can't see why it is right just because they are little.

[BertieBotts]

To the person who said they have such perfect parenting instincts that they have never had an urge to scream in their child's face, lucky you.

To the person who was brave enough to share those instincts (which, I might add, might never show their face until you have a 1/2/3 year old by which point it's a bit late to decide not to have children) thank you for being brave and know that you are not alone.

I also just like reading theory. I may not apply it perfectly all the time, I may not agree with all of it but it's interesting to me.

I used to read parenting books before I had children

[bruffin]

I'm from the school of muddling along parenting. It worked for me, ds is 18 and is pretty fab.
Me too and also have a dd 16 who is lovely as well.

I did like the Christopher Green books, because they were just plain common sense and made me laugh out loud

[cory]

TheBody Tue 18-Mar-14 08:19:14
"Cory good point, probably those people may not be the sort who buy and read the books in the first place."

TheBody, plenty of Mumsnetters have been brought up by abusive or neglectful parents: you can easily find that by reading old threads. They are on here because they desperately want to break that vicious circle and do something better for the next generation. And I have no doubt many of them manage it.

[BertieBotts]

I think it depends on the situation. Of course it would be wrong to do so out of a sense of "Ha, I'm right, you're wrong, I'm big, you're little, I'm smart, you're dumb"

But, I have let DS go out in the back garden without clothes/coat/shoes on at various times - and possibly out the front for shoes because it was paved whereas the back isn't - to "check" how cold it is and whether he thinks he really needs them or not. Likewise, when he wanted to get in the bath with clothes on I explained that his clothes would get wet and then gave him the choice to try it or not. I wouldn't have dumped him in there against his will but it didn't really make a difference to me if he got his clothes wet in the bath to see what it felt like. (He decided to take my advice when it was explained why, so it didn't come to that)

And a couple of times when we were late in the morning due to him refusing to get dressed I put him in the pushchair under a footmuff in PJs and dressed him when we got to the childminder's. Sometimes needs must!

[ercolercol]

I LOVE Alfie Cohen, as the daughter of very controlling parents, he has probably rescued my relationship with my children. Now I understand that I don't have to control them but I can help them learn to control themselves. (they are not brats - proof: repeat invitations to parties and playdates).

And Bonnie Harris "when your kids push your buttons'. Again a life changing book.

[BertieBotts]

Wow I hadn't picked up on that. Yeah, not all adult children from abusive homes are uneducated chavs

I was not brought up in an abusive home but my parenting instincts if left to it are off. The only thing I can think is that I had DS too young, I was still in sibling mode when relating to him rather than adult, parent mode. He does remind me of my little sister at times, less so now he's getting older and coming more into his own personality.

[BertieBotts]

When Your Kids Push Your Buttons seriously is life changing.