AIBU to ask if you would support a strike by midwifery/nursing staff?

[HolidayArmadillo]

Just that really, would you support a strike by frontline NHS midwifery/nursing staff? Following the 1% 'pay rise' news (which is actually a pay cut in real terms and only for those who are experienced staff at the top of their band) more and more of my colleagues have been saying that if it came to it they would strike, many have been reluctant up until this point as no one wants to disrupt women/patient care but the workforce is becoming burnt out, disillusioned and unsafe.

Just wondering what the mumsnet collective has to say?

To whoever asked (I've lost track!) I wasn't in the NHS in 1996 (only been in service 8 years) however talking to colleagues they've never known more strains to be placed on us than there are at present, bearing in mind I'm a midwife not a nurse, birth rates are at an all time high, we have an ageing workforce and we're being squeezed left right and centre.

A NQ staff nurse/midwife earns just over 20k full time basic.

£21,176, I've just double checked.

On another note holiday I wanted to do a conversion course into midwifery because I wanted to be an independent midwife, only thing is there's no insurance is there :(

Yes I would support it, but I'm not going to lie - as someone due to give birth in 6 weeks I'd be immensely grateful if any did break the strike, and would hope they wouldn't be judged, as it isn't like jobs where a strike just means a day's pay is lost.

I'd be terrified, but ultimately I'd support a strike because the work they do is incredible considering the huge amount of paperwork they have to fill in. A number of stays in hospital put me off going into nursing, because of the sheer amount of paperwork they have to do, the huge amount of work they're expected to put in and the way so many people (including patients!) still criticise them for things that aren't even their faults.

I remember the threatened strike action in Glasgow in 1990 over pay and conditions, all new contracts where 12 weeks only at the same time as managers where given BMW 's as their company cars
I left the NHS then and went into the voluntary sector where I remained for years until going back in.
Nurse threatening strike action always state skeleton staffing is provided, don't know why people would be "terrified" as a service would still be provided and as only "emergencies " would be admitted hospitals would have fewer bums on seats, management would cancel non emergency prior to the strike date.

I have been a nurse for 25 years and would strike at the drop of a hat for pay and conditions for my actual worth. Having watched/ listened/ supported my friends and family who are in the teaching profession it is the ONLY bargaining tool available . Aibu to ask, who the fuck voted these vile self absorbed wankers in?

yes I absolutely would.

I would support a strike

No. I knew what I was signing up for. No one goes into nursing for the money.

OK. I chose 1996 as the midway point between my children. So, things were better back then. My son nearly died because a midwife (I was the only woman in labour) didn't realise the cord was round his neck. Once I got home I had a different community midwife every day and with the exception of one of them they complained continually about how overworked they were; how the service was falling apart; how they were grossly underpaid; how the government (the terrible terrible Tories - yes discussing their politics with a patient in the patient's home) was destroying the NHS and as soon as we had a labour government all would be well. One was unspeakably rude, one was incompetent and gave the wrong advice about engorgement and mastitis. My health visitor did exactly the same.

Now, my difficulty with this is that I don't remember a very good service 18-20 years ago when it was supposedly easier and better funded for the staff.

I am sure the OP knows what happened to the boy who cried wolf. If there had been a little more professionalism a generation ago I think I would be a little more sympathetic now. The rot was sadly allowed to set in and the only way to get rid of it will be to cut it out and I have a nasty feeling it will be cut out by the dismantling of the NHS. It isn't the government who have killed the NHS - in my opinon it is those who work in it.

I am sorry OP but I've seen the argument played out before as did my mother in the 60's when the UK imported nurses from the commonwealth. Since its inception the NHS has been a sacred cow but the sacred cow got too fat and too complacent and is long overdue for slaughter.

Would you work for free then littleballerina?

You do realise in effect our pay is being cut.

I didn't go into nursing for the money, but I need wage that can put food on the table and a roof over our heads. If inflation continues to go up, if registration fees and pensions continue to go up, and my wage stays the same.. then I'm no longer going to be able to afford to do that. So I would have to leave nursing.

So yes, we don't go into it for the money but we sure as hell can't ignore the fact we're now getting less than before.

Yes I would support a strike. The government have totallly ignored the pay review body agreement, yet their argument over their own rise was it wasnt up to them it was their pay body so they had no choice but to accept 11%.
Incremental rises are not a pay rise. They are a means to pay less than the job rate for years.
A nurse starts at the bottom of their band to reflect inexperience then gets yearly increments until they reach the top of their band which is the actual pay for the job. This takes about 7 years. During this time they have a number of gateways which they have to achieve to continue up their grade. So effectively the government are getting cheap nursing until they reach the top of their band.
To sell these increments as pay rises to the public is disingenuous.
I would also strike for minimum staff ratios

^A nurse starts at the bottom of their band to reflect inexperience then gets yearly increments until they reach the top of their band which is the actual pay for the job. This takes about 7 years. During this time they have a number of gateways which they have to achieve to continue up their grade. So effectively the government are getting cheap nursing until they reach the top of their band.
To sell these increments as pay rises to the public is disingenuous^

This is what I was trying to explain in another thread but couldn't articulate it as well as you have.

NearTheWindyMill I have always had an excellent experience of the NHS and in two pregnancies could not fault a single aspect of the care I received from the midwives and health visitors. They have been consistently brilliant and I value them completely.

The government are undoubtedly trying to dismantle the NHS, but it's for ideological reasons and not the fault of the staff themselves. They will replace it with something far worse and we will all desperately miss the service as it is now, even with all its faults. I dread to think that my children may grow up without the NHS and face a healthcare system similar to the American one - it's terrifying.

And giggly I'd be terrified if midwives went on strike around my due date (six weeks away like Moomin!). I'd be very afraid of a 'skeleton staff' when I go into labour as I have planned a home birth which presumably couldn't be covered with a skeleton staff. My next choice of birth venue would be my local very small birth centre where I had dc1, I doubt that would run in the event of a strike and I might face travelling 40mins to a hospital where I really do not want to give birth.

So from a personal perspective, I hope midwives are not driven to strike. But if they are, they have my support.

I think you were lucky jellyandcake. I still remember coming round after an erpc after discovering a pg hadn't developed properly at 11 weeks. I was upset and the nurse looking after me turned round and said "oh did you want it then".

I think my dc will be get a better service if we have a healthcare system like that in America. We have health insurance anyway because I don't feel the standards of care are high enough.

Every time I looked at my notes when I was pg something had been recorded incorrectly by the midwife I saw. I think it's hard to have faith in people who can't write a correct note. I once said I was unsure if I would breastfeed (and this was a very big issue for me - long story). That was transcribed as intends to breastfeed - when I called it I was told they always wrote that. It was very important to me that people knew I was unsure because of previous problem and what is the point of asking the question when you are going to make up the answer. That is factually incorrect and extremely discourteous in my opinion. Further it means trust breaks down straight away.

A part of me thinks that forms have to be completed and checked and rechecked because the level of errors is just so high. It really isn't rocket science to be able to record information correctly the first time round but so often I have picked up notes and found what has been recorded to be incorrect.

When my dd was admitted to hospital via a&e she had to go back to Xray from the ward. The nurse had to accompany me and the porter to carry the notes. 10 minute walk there, 20 minute sit down, 10 minute wak back. Why couldn't the porter have carried the notes if I wasn't allowed to. Didn't seem like hard work to me but it did seem like a totally unnecessary skive. And this was a staff nurse too, not an auxilliary - that would have been more acceptable.

I wouldn't. If you don't like the pay - leave and get another job.

So windymill, because you had a bad experience you're saying basically we are all the same and we don't derserve any better?

Did you complain about your care and the staff involved?

Another problem we face is being tarred with the same brush as bad staff.

I'm definitely supportive of performance pay, but the way things are at the moment, even good staff are failing because of the high demand and lack of staffing.

I will add we live in London and I think unless one is seriously ill the day to day care is pretty poor in the capital.

As a nurse of over 20 years who actually took a pay cut to leave the horrendous wards and work in general practice....yes I would. If "lives are in our hands" then at least bring nurse salaries into line with other public sector workers!

Patients are escorted by nursing staff to xray or other tests for many reasons. Not just for a skive btw.

Too many people have bad experiences hotdog. Far too many. Look at East Staffs, look at Bristol, etc. The poor standards have become embedded.

Good for you having private health insurance, fat lot of good in an emergency though

I would not support a strike and say that as a qualified nurse. No way would I abandon patients..not ever. I just couldn't do it.

I think my dc will be get a better service if we have a healthcare system like that in America.

Are you for real? Do you actually know anything about the healthcare system in the US, and the millions of people who are left outside it?

LOL @ us becoming like America! Really?! Really. You would like to see people die then because they can't afford treatment.

I wouldn't. If you don't like the pay - leave and get another job
Well it's a good job we all don't follow your advice