AIBU to ask if you would support a strike by midwifery/nursing staff?

[HolidayArmadillo]

Just that really, would you support a strike by frontline NHS midwifery/nursing staff? Following the 1% 'pay rise' news (which is actually a pay cut in real terms and only for those who are experienced staff at the top of their band) more and more of my colleagues have been saying that if it came to it they would strike, many have been reluctant up until this point as no one wants to disrupt women/patient care but the workforce is becoming burnt out, disillusioned and unsafe.

Just wondering what the mumsnet collective has to say?

But Nursey, surely those should be two separate issues? £100k a year wouldn't make fainting on shift any more acceptable would it?

You're completely right, but we've already asked for minimum staffing levels, in fact the Francis Report advised it but it got ignored - the decision was made this year that we weren't getting minimum staffing levels.

So we're doing our best, and it's a spit in the face that we don't even deserve a minor pay rise. It would make it that little bit more easy to cope with if we were getting pay to reflect how much we take.

So you're not going to get the minimum staffing levels that you believe you need in order to do your job competently, and your proposal is to strike in protest???? Thereby reducing staffing levels further, and endangering patients? Who is going to do your job - you know, stopping people dying - while you're on strike?

No I wouldn't.

I probably would, but i'd be nervous if I was pregnant!

Dd2 was nearly delivered by paramedics anyway, local hospital was closed (full) and homebirth mws all busy - someone from community mW team made it on time luckily.

Before that a friend of mine gave birth alone because the mws couldn't come for half an hour.

I'd support over pay because they don't deserve a pay cut.

But low numbers of staff/beds would get me on the street with them!

I think we should strike over that too. I fully support that. But since this is talking about our wages..

It's not one or the other. It's both.

Who is going to do your job - you know, stopping people dying - while you're on strike
There would be skeleton staff. In-patient appointments and any non urgents would be cancelled. I'm not saying it would be completely safe either. But yet again people are expecting us to be martyrs and it's that point of view that plays directly into the governments hands to play us off as selfish or greedy. We are expected to be advocates for our patients, yet we aren't even allowed to advocate for ourselves without receiving a backlash.

None of us want to strike. We care deeply about our patients which is why we put up with the crap to begin with, but where's the means to an end? What do we do? We've petitioned, we've wrote letters, we've campaigned... nothing. Striking is always the last step before quitting altogether. But it would seem people prefer us to roll over.

wilsonfrickett (love the name) you said... For eg you said wrt to increments there is a lot of work (paper) that goes into being ready for an appraisal as well as the competences etc you have to meet in order to be awarded your increment. Em, yeah - like in every other job in the world. Striking because your appraisals are tough won't wash.

I totally agree, I only highlighted this because the government are intent on making it seem like we get these increments just for turning up and that is not the case.

Agree 100% with your last post Nursey.

I think wilsonfrickett is right. Protesting or striking over recommendations from the Francis report not been implemented within trusts would have far more public support than over pay.

To make it clear, I don't think a 1% rise is anything but goading, the cynical side of me agrees it's to demonise clinicians in the eyes of a public who will automatically compare their own situation and decide that any hint of a moan is greed etc. it's a sneaky under hand tactic, but fits with this administrations agenda of making out that anyone who isn't profit making for the country is a leech.

Realistically speaking, it's not a battle that you're likely to win at this moment in time given how the county's finances are being managed.

Sooo, if the climate at the moment isn't looking receptive why not focus on making the work environment for the salary rather than the other way around?

Improvements in culture and therefore care would lead to much greater chances of improving pay in the future. That's not going to happen unless the few times that this is looked at independently and recommendations are made are fully embraced and enforced properly and effectively.

I'd take the bet that despite recommendations made in the Francis report you have anecdotes or evidence of things that could of changed that haven't. You have it in black and white, if staff can be moved to strike then make it really worth it.

Strategically clinicians have trained for a lifelong career, money can only motivate to a point if the conditions are horrific.

On behalf of the NHS admin and management staff I know, and have worked with for many years, I would like to point out that they are being totally screwed too. many of them are also at the top of their band and even if they are not, the incremental pay rise is less than 1% anyway in many cases (I'm talking about the Bands 3-8c here btw). They too have to work more hours than they are supposedly contracted to do in often difficult circumstances. Some of the lower management posts are squeezed from both above and below and now feel as if nothing they do is right. On top of that they have to endure insults from the public, the government and often even frontline staff.

Everyone in the NHS is squeezed - wherever they work and whatever their position.

Everyone in the public sector is treated as if they are no better than a benefit scrounger and made to feel as if they should be grateful that the private sector for allowing them to work.

Pensions are worth nothing, working conditions are stretched and now they've had another kick in the teeth with this pay cut.

So yes, I would support any and all NHS staff who want to strike because, actually, the way we are going on we are not going to have an NHS and, frankly, that would endanger more patients lives than a one day strike.

No I would not support a strike of essential services especially over pay. what about campaigning for public support? I would add my voice to that and campaign for better conditions.

Striking is not a positive move imo - it is borne of a negative mindset and costs in an area already stretched.

Good post imnot

Problem is, we did exactly that. We changed the culture and conditions on the ward. We petitioned extensively to stop the closure if the ward. We proved our staff were invaluable and highly skilled.
We worked our arses off.

The issue is that now we are expected to kept to the same high standards while 'they' continue to cut funding and staffing levels. It hasn't made a blind bit of difference for the staff. Of course the patients care is better, that was the whole point of it.

But years down the line, it seems as though the staff have made a rod for their own back.

Sorry about all the typos - on phone

Zeezeek has it right. Without treating our nurses, doctors, all NHS staff fairly and with respect, giving them the means to earn a reasonable wage, to work in the right conditions and listening to them when they are at the end of their commitment, we will not have an NHS any longer.

Sorry forgot to add....

Being denied that 1% payrise is a kick in the teeth.

Me too hotdog - I'm just hoping there's no pedants on this thread

It shouldn't have to be a constant battle but it is. It's great that one ward in one hospital was so motivated and had people who had the strength and inclination to improve things that they actually made a real and tangible difference. It's not a rod, it's something to defend.

When you hear success stories from the front line they're also always in isolation. Our trust sang the praises if a team who managed to go paperless and encouraged us all to follow their lead. Our manager may as well have just told us to go fuck ourselves because of the initial cost of a project like that in our department. Long term it would have been amazing, but under the surface of it the trust just didn't care about anything but the bottom line.

Apply that logic to clinical improvements and well, ta da!

A clinician/patient movement outside of the trusts that highlights these scenarios and demands real action and accountability for these decisions is what's needed.

I think there's a 'save our nhs' organisation. I don't know much about it to be completely honest but I wonder if it would benefit from more nhs workers supporting them?

To the people asking about campaigning and getting the public on their side. They have. Extensively.

Marches, petitions, campaigns. If you feel strongly about refusing them the right to strike then people must lend their support in other ways. The NHS is for all of us and we need our nurses. Let's get involved in helping them more. A rather different version of "we are all in this together". One based on solidarity amongst workers, not borne out of a desire to exploit.

Can you answer me a question please OP? Are working conditions worse than they were in 1996?

I got 1% this year. I moved from FE to HE. I hadn't had a rise for three years before that. I have to contribute 6-7% to my pension - my employer matches that. I am very very lucky.

What does the equiv of a staff nursae earn please?

I would like to note some of the MNet threads where women share their experiences about things like sweeps, miscarriage, generally unkind comments.

I think a really efficient, caring holistic nursing service woud deserve more. I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure that's what we have at present. I think improved we need a greatly improved standard of care first.

If there is to be a strike I think it has to focus on patient care as a priority.

Another good point about the money involved to change for the better.

It took thousands in a full refurbishment, New equipment and systems to be put in place.

We raised our own money through sponsored activities to buy things like recliner chairs, orientation boards, TV/radios etc. There were a hell of a lot of unpaid hours put in.

But because it took a lot of money, like hell are the trust going to do it for every ward/department. They couldn't afford to.

Not every member of staff are going to want to do what we did. I'm not even sure I would advise it now tbh.

It was one of the most stressful times of my working life. We were reduced to tears quite often and morale was at an all time low. You can get paid exactly the same elsewhere with less stress and effort.

I completely understand why staff do it. Many of the staff that went through it no longer work on the ward, which is such a shame.

I think a really efficient, caring holistic nursing service woud deserve more. I'm afraid I'm not entirely sure that's what we have at present. I think improved we need a greatly improved standard of care first

Thats going not going to happen. Doing more than than the minimum, genuine caring, takes time. Time costs money. At the moment there are barely enough staff to provide the minimum.

yes

I would support it. I'd be terrified by it (am due DC2 in August) but I'd support it. I want the people looking after me to feel valued and supported by the government for doing these vital, often life-saving jobs.

I don't support strike action (as a nurse with huge levels of responsibility, getting paid considerably less than my teacher sibling and with more education as a nurse than she does as a teacher).

The government doesn't give 2 hoots - the only people the strike would hurt is vulnerable patients, and quite frankly they already get a poor service with cuts at every turn.

You cannot provide high quality, safe, compassionate care at current staffing levels - the CQC(with all their faults) have identified many trusts around the uk with staffing levels that are too low to provide safe care. Quite frankly, the health unions should be pushing that agenda than wasting their time fighting for a pay rise which is not going to make a blind bit of difference to most staff (average £15 -20 per month before tax).