To think at least 50% of the Adult Population would fail the 11+ Exam

[motown3000]

A light hearted, but none the less interesting post . I was wondering what percentage of the Adult population ( Including Graduates) who if the were given an 11+ Exam would fail ( Some even after having practice) and "Tutoring". I had two daughters go through the 11+ one passed one Failed, and also a Niece/Nephew who both passed.

The other interesting point though it would highlight how poor ( relatively) some adults Literacy and Numeracy skills are.

I know that my mother, my husband and my stepfather would all fail, because they were next to useless when trying to help my dd study for it!

I like to think I would pass. Dd passed, but not with a high enough mark for our local girls grammar. She is going to a bilateral school in the selective stream.

I do think that there must be better ways of deciding who is grammar material. Dd is currently year 6, and now studying for the SATS exams in May. Her school are talking about her sitting the level 6 tests as she is working hard and already secure level 5bs across the board. I the recent mock exams they did in school she was the only child to achieve a 5 in grammar at all!

I'd be expecting to see a difference between graduates and non-graduates though, but it would be interesting.

I took it at 11 when my parents were thinking of staying in the UK instead of returning to Holland and I passed it, but we ended up gong back to Holland anyway in the end.

I think we need to be more flexible and not label children at 11 - it's a shocking waste of talent to write people off so young, we need ways to pick up the late bloomers and nurture their talent.

Sparkly I know what you mean, my DD is also doing the L6 SATs. Her secondary will treat her as a high L5 whether she gets them or not, but her school is presenting it as a fun challenge from which she will learn a lot and she is taking it as such. I suspect she won't pass the maths but there won't be much in it, L6 reading is stunningly hard but it does depend on what they get faced with on the day and L6 SpAG she will fly through as she loves it.

pointythings dd is the same. She see's it all as a bit of a challenge. I suspect she will get the L6 in Maths (her favourite subject... however that is where she lost points in the 11+ because she didn't show working out and didn't double check her answers!). I think she is capable of L6 SpAG although I worry about the reading. Her school have told me that the Level 6 papers for English are combined and therefore they are questioning whether to let her have a go at the English, as her reading level may bring her down. They tell me she is strange because her SpAG is higher (by about 2 or 3 sublevels) than her reading.

Never seen one but wouldn't be surprised if I failed.

I passed as a child but I don't think that I would now without putting in some preparation. I hardly ever use the numeracy skills that were tested so mine are very very rusty.

The non verbal questions can be chalkenging

my brother can't read/write his "adult literacy skills are poor" so would fail.... don't think it would matter a jot to him - he is a high end chef in an LA hotel living the high life on over £120k a year....

literacy and numeracy are not the be all and end all... not everyone needs to go to uni to get on in life..

Good point, Shadow - I have a friend who is somewhere on the spectrum, very high functioning, and he is a highly gifted chef with a real talent for chocolate and pastry. With his precision and attention to detail, he will flourish.

It would be helpful if our education system could pick up non-academic talents like that and set them on their path earlier instead of focusing on university and academia in the current blinkered fashion.

I think Pointythings makes a good point about not labelling children too early at eleven. I passed it back in 1982, my older brother also passed. My sister and younger brother did not, yet we all went on to get degrees and have all held down professional jobs. Certainly in my younger brother's case he bloomed later than eleven. As adults I would say he has the quickest sharpest mind of any of us.

I would fail.

I failed when I was 11 and I would probably fail again.

I would probably fail....... I base that on helping DD to study for it a couple of years ago (she passed), it's a completely different animal to when I took it in the 80's (I passed it then - and seeing as the OP was asking, I also went to university). DD only had to do the verbal and non verbal reasoning papers, luckily they don't do the maths papers in our area.

Does anyone have a link to a practice test? Would be interesting for us all to put our money where our (mostly self-deprecating!) mouths are!

Try this

Some how I passed (scratches head and thinks of crap A levels)...

I did that one a few years ago and passed it, but then I'm good at maths and at puzzles, which a lot of it is.

As Applepippa's post shows, many children who fail the eleven plus and go on to degrees, so I don't see that it is writing children off at 11. I have one that passed and one that failed; they'll both end up at university and are both at the right kind of school for their abilities at the current time. In much the same way the people who get the best A level results and get the best university places often don't end up being the ones who do best at university and go on to the best postgraduate courses. People become the best of their peer group at different points.

The main issue with the education system is that we expect a child who got the best scores at 5 to also be the best at 7, 11, 14, 16 and 18, and if they don't keep making progress at that high level schools have 'failed' them. The 11 plus and indeed all the national curriculum level recording should matter for a couple of years and then be ignored, and all children given a clean state. If DS doesn't get the highest GCSE grades then he'll not be in the sixth form at Grammar, and someone else will be, which is as it should be.

I never took it ( Would probably have got the worst score ever recorded).

However, I helped DD1 (Fail) DD2 (Pass) . I have also had a couple of goes on the Essex 11+ (Samples) CSSE site. I got 42/45 on a Maths Paper and 40/50 on a English Paper , I was rather Pleased with myself.

The reason I had a go was to "Prepare" me in a small way for my O.U Access Course. I do think though that Non Verbal Reasoning is very unfair on Dyspraxic and Dyslexic Sufferers though. Thankfully quite a few areas don't use Non Verbal Reasoning, they use Maths/English and Verbal Reasoning instead.

The reason Non Verbal reasoning is unfair for Dyspraxic/ Dyslexic Sufferers are Obvious, Dyslexic people are unlikely to see dots and coloured lines. Dyspraxic people struggle with sequencing and organisation.

Corus. The CSSE "Essex" site is worth a try , It has sample papers from 2003/2004 of Maths and English...

I passed that bbc test. 15/15.

Those sorts of questions are similar to the verbal reasoning section of the 11+, but remember there are usually maths, english and verbal or non verbal reasoning papers to sit.

I'd make a hash of VR, I'm far too slow these days.

I can do NVR tests, my brain is just wired that way.

When the 11+ was in widespread use I think it was about 80% who failed. The figure for girls was higher because there weren't as many high school/grammar school places for girls.

I remain eternally thankful that I didn't live in a time or place where the 11+ existed. I would have failed in spectacular fashion.I probably would today to be fair.

My parents wouldn't have had the money or inclination to tutor me through the test either. I would have been on the scrap heap before I'd hit my twelfth birthday.

It wasn't until I was in the 3rd year of high school that I got my act together, thanks to some excellent teachers at the 'bog standard' comprehensive I attended. From there I got a place at Cambridge and am now in the finishing stages of a funded PhD at a Russel group university.

Funnily enough the people who were thought of as academically strong at primary school, didn't always go on to shine at secondary level. Separating the successes from the failures at the arbitrarily decided age of 11 seems utterly premature and cruel. Especially when the standard required to pass the 11+ is dependent on the number of grammar schools in a given area, rather than an absolute standard.

Why on earth would you have failed in spectacular fashion?

It's not rocket science and any switched on 10 year old could do it.Really not getting the hoo ha.

It's not the passing that is hard but getting a place.