To ring school tomorrow

[ThePinkOcelot]

My dd is in year 8 and the head of year has sent an email to the other teachers to say pupils should not be allowed to use the toilet during lessons.

I don't know about you, but when I need to go, I need to go. I think this is just plain wrong. I am thinking about ringing tomorrow to say so.

I should imagine it would be disruptive if the whole class decided they needed the loo, but I don't think that will happen. Dd asked and the teacher said wait until next lesson then of course the next teacher said no.

Holding on causes UTIs and sitting on the loo for the sake of it trying to go causes haemorrhoids.

Would I be unreasonable to complain?

I wet myself a few times at high school I also used to take myself to the toilet to calm myself down when I was finding the classroom overwhelming. There were always huge queues at breaktimes/lunchtimes and you had to get past the prefects who were the "popular" show off kids and deal with the toilets being the place where the bullies hung out during breaks. Also, if you have detention every lunchtime and are a slow eater you are already spending the entire time being told off for being slow. Plus if you have bad periods, which loads of teenage girls do, you end up with leaks and so on, and tying your jumper round your waist to hide them, then getting told off for that too.

I had no diagnosed problems that would have given me a pass, until I developed such bad MH problems that I had to sit alone in a kind of storage room half the time in year 11 to avoid all the shite involved in having to spend loads of time in a noisy busy building full of people who thought I was a joke.

God, I hated school so much. Such an awful place. Spent a lot of time hiding in toilets.

Now I am an adult I am able to control my bladder and just avoid situations that would stress me out that much entirely.

And no, I didn't tell the teacher if i had wet myself. Just paniced and tried to clean up using toilet paper/hand dryer if I could. DD1 is only 7 but often comes home wet (GP appointment tomorrow about it) because she hasn't asked to go or told the teacher if she has had an accident - I only know at home because I know the shifty look she gets on her face.

I'm sorry, I just have to say this:

The word you're looking for is DISCREET.

DISCRETE is a whole different word. It means separate, distinct from something else.

To be subtle and tactful is to be DISCREET.

Sorry, it was making me twitchy .

This is the sort of thing I think teachers need to be very sensitive about Britta. It is the sort of problem that can be easily missed if the focus on not disrupting lessons is too strong.

All in all balance is needed and rules need to openly reflect this. Without being overly officious, need for Doctor's notes and so on. Otherwise they breed fear which can cause problems.

ThePinkOcelot, would you be happy if your child's teacher regularly walked out of lessons and left the class unsupervised and untaught because when they had to go they had to go?

Would you be happy if your child missed vital information because the teacher could not repeat the same information again and again to include all the lavatory visitors?

Or if she found it difficult to understand what the teacher was saying because of the constant disruption of pupils getting in and out of the classroom.

There are plenty of jobs where your trips to the loo have to be fitted round the work: teaching, lecturing, a lot of police work, surgery, building work, the theatre, lots of shop work, factory work etc etc.

Any child with a recognised bladder problem will get special permission on submitting a letter from their GP. My dd had that, no problem at all. But it would have been unreasonable to make the whole school conform to a policy that would have led to less effective teaching just because dd needed special consideration.

Just as it would have been unreasonable to state that no pupils should have to use the stairs to get to and from lessons because dd was unable to due to her disability. Or to state that all pupils must be allowed laptops in their exam because dd needs one.

Most healthy people can train their bladders to hold on for 45 or even 90 minutes without causing health problems.

If your dd has a problem just let the school know.

cory If a parent is essentially worried I think they need reassurance from the school and not defensiveness regarding the policy.

Added to this children can have, sometimes temporary, sometimes emergency problems with toileting that a doctor's letter just will not cover. They could have suddenly been taken ill for example or started a period, which they are still learning to deal with. These are not necessarily medical conditions but can still cause problems.

Sensitivity must be employed for successful classroom management. A child needs to be confident to know they can approach a teacher, and they they will be understanding, if they have a genuine difficulty.

Too much of a dismissive attitude towards the child's predicament and citing disruption caused, hinders this.

That sounds awful Britta I really hope that toilets in high schools are not like that any more ie. bullies hanging out there and making other kids afraid to use the loo.

All this "you can't go when......" - I work in a shop.... if I need to go I go.... even if it is my till shift - I disCREETly ask a colleague if they can cover me for 5 min... everyone says yes - because everyone likes to have cover available for their turn...

I used to work for the Coastguard... in the control tower you still asked for cover - even in the middle of a rescue - because if you are distracted by needing to pee you will muck up.... if you are out and about in the landrover - you go pee behind a rock...

2 extremes I know, but I've never been in a job where I'd be expected to wet myself...or be in trouble for not being able to hold it in... (even more important after 2 babies in 2 years... bladder control is not my forte)

I have asked my DDs - they get to go when they need to... they wait for a break in the work, leave discreetly and return quickly and quietly.... don't even need to ask - and they are in Y7 and Y8.....

When I was at school you could use the toilet at any point in the day. We didn't abuse this and there was never a problem.
Kids have small bladders and sometimes you have to go during a lesson. If everyone waits until breaks then there will be queues and students will be late for lessons. I like the idea where it's written in the students planner so teachers can see if they are up to no good.
I wouldn't complain but I would ring up the school and voice my concerns op.

capsium then you go into the school and explain. As opposed to complain. I have had to do this countless times, due to dd having all sorts of weird problems. It doesn't mean the school can't have a general rule that covers people without problems.

Surely part of the job as a parent is acting as a tactful advocate for your child, explaining their particular situation as well as trying to understand where they fit into a wider context?

Shadow, as a university lecturer, I would not be popular if I peed in the corridor. In an absolute emergency I could leave the lecture hall and do the 5 minute walk to the loos- in fact, I once had to do this after a prolapse. But if it became a regular feature of my lectures, then the students would complain; it would be very disruptive for them to have the thread of my lecture interrupted halfway. So after my own problems I had to think very carefully about planning my visits to the loo, never drinking anything that might irritate my bladder etc.

Sometimes students do have to leave my classes early for valid reasons- I don't complain, but am very aware that it disrupts the lessons and it always takes several minutes before students can focus on what I am saying again. If this happened two or three times during a lesson, it could totally disrupt the session.

RedFocus do 13yos (which we are talking about here) really have small bladders? My 13yo is the size of a grown man- would his bladder be any smaller?

How do people ever manage to go to the theatre or concerts if it is humanly impossible for healthy people to keep from the loo for 45 minutes? Most theatres won't let you in again until the interval if you leave during an act.

And what about the actors and the orchestra? Would people be fine with waiting 5 minutes mid-performance because Hamlet has shot off to the loo and you couldn't expect him to concentrate on his duel if he needs to pee? Does the soloist just ask for a second violin to cover for him?

cory Never suggested otherwise. I agree explanation is more appropriate than complaint. Complaint is only ever necessary if the school has been willfully negligent IMO.

It would be nice to be able to trust the school though and an understanding letter with sympathetic tone, sensitive explanation of the policy to parents or children goes a long way to help develop trust.

'I should imagine it would be disruptive if the whole class decided they needed the loo, but I don't think that will happen.'

Noooooo of course it won't, OP.
Nor will you get them doing a constant shuttle, so as soon as one comes back, you lose another.
Then they return and loudly ask what's going on, or complain that they've missed something. Or they come back at the end of the session and smirk.
Of course Y8 will behave in a mature and responsible fashion, every last sweetling of them.
You aren't working in a school in any capacity then, if you can believe that.

And sometimes schools must take the 'high road' so to speak. If parents are overly worried they might come across as complaining. What they need in the first instance is reassurance not defensiveness.

And I know all about having to advocate for a child having successfully negotiated the SEN system. Not without coming up against some pretty strong resistance I might add. Professional pride and fear has a lot to answer for....

Goblinchild