Disagreement over Maternity Leave vs. Extended Paternity Leave

[SybilRamkin]

A friend of mine, let's call him A, is having a disagreement with his DW, and I offered to canvas opinions for him on AIBU. Please be gentle with him, he's a sensitive soul!

Before the birth of their first DC, A and his DW had planned for DW to return to work after 9 months and for A to take 3 months' EPL to allow him to have some lovely bonding time with their DC. However, last week, 7 months into ML, DW announced that she would not be returning to work at 9 months after all, and that she intended to take the full 12 months herself before returning to work. A was very upset, as he'd already arranged with his work to take the time off, and was really looking forward to having 3 months as primary carer to his PFB. He attempted to reason with his DW, but she refused to agree to him taking any EPL at all - her view is that she gave birth to their DC, and so she should be allowed as much time as she wants to spend at home.

Pertinent information:

1. A and his DW earn roughly the same salary give or take c.£20 a month, and DW is intending to return to work FT.

1. A cannot afford to take 3 months of unpaid parental leave in addition to the 3 months of unpaid ML his DW plans to take. They had only budgeted for one of them not to be earning.

1. DW is not breastfeeding (hasn't since DC was 3 months old).

So MNers - does A have a moral right to be the primary carer for his DC for a few months' bonding time or is his DW right that since she gave birth to their DC her claim trumps his? And, perhaps more importantly, what should A do about this (if anything)?

totally sympathise with her i would be surprised if she goes back to work at all

and to be fair how to we know she has just dropped it on him? maybe he decided it was what he wanted and she decided against it we only have op word for it that it was all okay with her

personally i would hate to hand over to my husband i know full well i would end up with a house full of washing no food and constant phone calls saying he is crying again what am i supposed to feed him where is my wallet when are you coming home ive had enough

i dont think we have the full story

Yes I very much doubt if this was a sudden unilateral announcement, I bet there's more to it than OPs friend has said.

And GarthsUncle you assume that if the boot was on the other foot the wife could just suck it up - how revealing! What if she was desperate to get back to work/an opportunity or promotion night be missed?

I expect she'd be told "Oh well it's for the best, if he doesn't want to do it you can't force him."

And ultimately it's HER decision whether she goes back to work at all!

She's right out of order. She's created a serious power imbalance in her marriage: not only by reneging unilaterally on their agreement, but also by taking control of their baby's relationship with its father. Power imbalances kill relationships, quickly or slowly.

Her argument doesn't wash. I'm aware it's very hard for most mothers to go back to work, but most do it. What if she were the sole earner? She'd have to do it then.

She's taking advantage of her husband's salary to cheat him out of planned time with their baby. She is wrong.

We did this and it worked well. It was really hard for me - I wanted to stay home but it was our agreement and I'm so glad I stuck to it. DH and I are equal partners in looking after our child now and DC has a great relationship with DH.

If I was A I would consider taking the leave anyway and getting into 3 months of debt. His wife had promised to go to work for this time so they should look at how to cover that debt as a family. It's not fair for her to make decisions of this type unilaterally.

And for those of you being dismissive of needing 9 months to get over childbirth, bully for you that you had an easier time of it. I was still in so much pain at 6 months that I cried because of the pain daily. Things actually only started to improve when I went back to work at 9 months actually - it was far more relaxing!

If he decided he wasn't going to be the wage earner like she has then she'd soon decide what was for the best.

I bet he's sorry he's had a child with this control freak.

I went back to work when DS was 7 months and DH was home for the next 4 - it was hard at first, but turned out to be fabulous for both of them in terms of their bond, and DH understanding what it's like to be home with a baby. It was also excellent for me to go back to work without having to worry about dropping him anywhere or being with people I didn't know well. I also think that time really set the scene for us co-parenting as a team. That's my experience anyway ...

AnnaLegovah - Im sorry you got dvt but most women are more than fine at 9 months. I dont know many that had that long maternity.

Marymawestcott - Thats tge thing a lot on here wont get this as they are dhs are a bit useless. I cant beliebe you are impressed that your dh looked after yours at 10 months and the house was a mess.

Dh is doing my maternity and I am back to work at 2 weeks. He will have 3 aged 6 and under and I will come back to completely tidy house and dinner on the table. Im married to a normal man though

Olgaga, that's not what I meant at all. There's no obligation for twelve months in total to be taken - DW can take 9 months and DH 3 months or DW can take 9 months and DH no months. So if she wants to go back at 9 months for a promotion she can.

But the DH cannot take 3 months unless the wife takes 9 months only as she has to gift it to him.

Of course if he opted out of his 3 months at the last minute and didn't arrange the childcare to cover himself then he would be being unfair too.

"And ultimately it's HER decision whether she goes back to work at all!"

Unless she has huge savings or a trust fund then its not her decision. The DH would have to agree to be the only earner and fund her every need. She doesnt automatically get to opt out because she is female.

Caruthers, i agree re regretting the partnership with a control freak. If a man is controlling on MN he is classed as abusive yet a women is not.

Amazing that some think their husbands should run around after them and agree with everything they say. God forbid the man have a mind, wishes and opinions of his own

Wow, this thread reeks of sexism. Why is it immediately assumed that the father must be useless? And even if the mother believes it, she could potentially be wrong?

It also shows that there's may be a different solution needed to shared leave, e.g. in Germany parents can have up to 14 months of shared leave, but one parent can only take up to 12 months, the other parent must take at least 2 months. As long as that is met they can share the leave however they see fit, but the extra 2 months cannot be taken by the parent who had the 12 months already.

I cannot believe that someone actually posted that its solely the woman's decision whether to return to work at all.

Wow- it's certainly an insight into the state of some relationships.

Once you decide to partner someone and have children, in any decent relationship, there is discussion, negotiation and when necessary, compromise. And this is a hugely important issue. This is likely to be the DHs only chance of 3 months off work looking after his child- and the mother is trying to deny him and the child that experience.

And it's utterly ridiculous to say its entirely up to her whether she returns to work. Why? Because she has a vagina and pushed a baby out ? Clearly for some people that's a get out of jail card to wave at their partner to avoid any sensible grown up discussion.

I appreciate its only a minority who are saying these things and its good to see that the majority are in relationships where there is an equal balance of power.

i don't think he should agree to anything with her. who is to say she will want to go back to work after 1 years leave anyway.

he should just take the leave.

YouAre, my understanding is that unless the mother gives up the leave, the father cannot take it.

fair enough garth. but if i was A I would be wondering who my partner was and why I was with them.

and I would make that very clear to my partner.

georgesdino - to be fair, prior to that I was breast feeding, so time away from DC1 could only be a couple of hours max, if you start breast feeding - even if you've stopped by the 7 month mark, the pattern of "primary carer" has been set, and if everyone is happy with that, you aren't forced to change it, then often you will just bob along in the same roles.

Thinking about it, DC2 is now 9 months, and DH hasn't done a whole day care, but then I'm on mat leave, its my job, I've been for the occassional hair cut or evening out without DCs, but not done a whole day out. But thats fine, when I go back to work we're using a nursery as childcare, I have no significant events (like hen dos) where I'd need to be out all day, but if I did, I'm pretty sure, with a few clear instructions, he'd do a good job. On the other hand, I've got friends with similar aged DCs who's DHs I watch and think "thank god Dfriend doesn't have to rely on you to actually care for your own DCs".

As I said, I might be being unfair on "A", or it could be we are being unfair on the DW, I'm of the opinion if you are the slightest bit concerned about the quality of care your DCs will have in someone else's care, you are better to upset the adult than leave your child with them. Its unusual its the Dad here, often the upset is grandparents who've offered care and then the parents don't feel they'd be up to it, but the point remains.

I find it hard to believe the DW doesn't have a reason, it's a bit crap to call her controlling or unfair without hearing why she's doing this.

"I find it hard to believe the DW doesn't have a reason, it's a bit crap to call her controlling or unfair without hearing why she's doing this."

Is it? The site is full of people only hearing one side of a story (the woman's) and yet you rarely see posters holding back or feeling bad about judging unreasonable or controlling husbands, they usually dive right in!

You get the impression sometimes that women can be judged for their appalling behaviour in a woman v woman thread but then given a very generous benefit of the doubt when it is a woman v man thread. Why not call a spade a spade - on the face of it she is being an arse and should be called on it.

I wonder if later down the line she'll be complaining about him being emotionally detached from his family, or him not appreciating how hard childcare is or just for generally not knowing what to do with his child. Now is the chance to set his relationship and role in the family up for life.

Hear hear bluegrass.

The point about 'upsetting the adult rather than the child' is a red herring here. If you have reservations about a particular childminder or nursery- sure, you prioritise the child. If granny has offered freebie childcare but you aren't comfortable with some of her methods - sure, you prioritise the child.

But this is the father ffs. The other equal parent, who should be entitled to as much input and influence on major decisions.

I suspect you're right bluegrass... This smacks of one of those situations where the OP is ridiculously possessive, won't 'let' her husband do things because god forbid he might not do them exactly her way- and a few years down the line she'll be bleating that 'dh doesn't do enough with the kids '

She has changed her mind about sharing HER RIGHT to 12 months maternity leave. She is entitled to do that She doesnt have to cajole or beg. As a couple they can afford it.

Like it or not, it's her decision to make whether she returns after 9 months, 12 months, to the same job, or a new job on reduced hours or not at all.

None of us know the reason behind her change of mind. All we know is that she expressed a willingness to share her leave before she knew how she would feel, and now feels unhappy at the prospect.

His disappointment is understandable, but I think it's absurd to accuse her of being "controlling".

If he wants to be a great husband as well as a great dad he'll swallow his disappointment and support her decision.

She has changed her mind about sharing HER RIGHT to 12 months maternity leave.

If a relationship is based on each individual's rights, its a very poor relationship.

He certainly shouldn't suck it up and swallow his disappointment and he shouldn't finance her in her new venture if that venture doesn't include his wishes too.

He needs an exit strategy and he needs one fast or he's going to become disenfranchised by her needs.

He should take the leave and take a chance on her including him in bonding with his child, if it leaves her financially insecure then so be it.

It's not just "her" right though, the whole point of the law change was that maternity leave is now a couples' legal right.
The relationship with her husband and his trust in her (he'll never believe she means a thing she says about future promises again) should be more important than an extra 3 months off work with her baby, nice though that would be.
The decision shouldn't be "her" decision, it should be joint, as it was until she unilaterally changed things.
If my husband did this I'd never feel the same way about him again and would feel he was a much more selfish and inconsiderate person that I thought he was before.

Is maternity leave about parents bonding with the baby or about mothers recovering from birth, breastfeeding (where possible) and bonding (mother/child)?

It's almost taboo to say it but mothers and fathers are not exactly the same and yes, maybe the baby needs the mother more in the first few months. Is it right to move to system and mindset that mothers are nothing special to a baby and that it is selfish for the mother to have all her maternity leave in the name of narrow visions of 'gender equality' and fathers rights?

I have even heard men calling their partners selfish for breastfeeding and not 'sharing the feeding' with them! Hmmmm selfish also for not sharing maternity leave?

I say let the mother have the leave, she is having the first lot so will be in a routine with the baby as main carer. She is NBU.