Disagreement over Maternity Leave vs. Extended Paternity Leave

[SybilRamkin]

A friend of mine, let's call him A, is having a disagreement with his DW, and I offered to canvas opinions for him on AIBU. Please be gentle with him, he's a sensitive soul!

Before the birth of their first DC, A and his DW had planned for DW to return to work after 9 months and for A to take 3 months' EPL to allow him to have some lovely bonding time with their DC. However, last week, 7 months into ML, DW announced that she would not be returning to work at 9 months after all, and that she intended to take the full 12 months herself before returning to work. A was very upset, as he'd already arranged with his work to take the time off, and was really looking forward to having 3 months as primary carer to his PFB. He attempted to reason with his DW, but she refused to agree to him taking any EPL at all - her view is that she gave birth to their DC, and so she should be allowed as much time as she wants to spend at home.

Pertinent information:

1. A and his DW earn roughly the same salary give or take c.£20 a month, and DW is intending to return to work FT.

1. A cannot afford to take 3 months of unpaid parental leave in addition to the 3 months of unpaid ML his DW plans to take. They had only budgeted for one of them not to be earning.

1. DW is not breastfeeding (hasn't since DC was 3 months old).

So MNers - does A have a moral right to be the primary carer for his DC for a few months' bonding time or is his DW right that since she gave birth to their DC her claim trumps his? And, perhaps more importantly, what should A do about this (if anything)?

but blouse who's to say that given the choice he didn't want to spend 9 months at home devoting himself to the baby but went to work because he knew he was going to get his 3 months later. Just because she got to go first with the parental leave why does that mean she gets it all?

I think it is unfair of her to change the plan without a proper discussion. I would have found it hard to leave my DCs at 9 months but if my OH had been able to do this I think it sets the rest of parenthood up as much more of a team effort. Lots of mums who take all the leave and then work PT to do most of the stuff for kids are forever the "primary" carer even if they then go back full time. I think the opportunity for him to experience staying at home and building the confidence to know he can cope with baby all on his own should not be underestimated. She might well regret it in years to come.

Do they have any savings?

If so, I don't see why he can't unilaterally decide that he will use them in order to take parental leave and spend time with lo. Failing that, he could use his holiday? Or just swallow the loss of pay. Might help his wife change her mind.

Tit for tat after all!

Agree it's pointless being too hard on the DW though. Yes, she is being unfair but I can understand where she is coming from. Of course it is his baby too! But despite what MN likes to think, men and women are, mostly (obv not always) different in their parenting roles. I know so so many SAHMs and only one dad. Equally my ex husband is a fantastic father but would never want to stay at home with the children and had no qualms about going back after 2 weeks paternity leave.

Its virtually forbidden to say it on mumsnet but I feel that the DW who has given birth to this baby should get to have the maternity leave if she wants it. Although I believe the option to share ML should be there if it suits both partners.

However, it's a huge thing to have a change of mind over and if my partner broke a firm agreement on something like this I'd have trouble trusting him.

Of course we only ever get one side here on AIBU and I'd love to have her side on this. I wonder if your friend has given you the whole story OP? almost certainly his version of events

I think she is being very unfair to unilaterally change a decision they made together. It doesn't bode well for the future regarding decisions about the children if she sees them as 'hers' and not family decisions to make. Yes, leaving a baby at 8 or 9 months old is hard - I've done it three times and didn't have any real choice about it as I needed to be earning again. However, she is setting a tone for the relationship that I wouldn't be prepared to accept if it were mine - in reversed circumstances, what would people think if me and my DH had agreed that I would stay at home for 12 months and then he suddenly decided that I was going back after 9 months without consulting me about it? I would be up in arms, and I think most people would. I know the 2 scenarios don't exactly match, but it's the nearest equivalent I can think of.

Yes but that would be a total of six months for the family on one wage. Perhaps they can't afford this? The wife will already have had three quartets of the leave, I don't think one quarter for her husband is unreasonable. Many women can't afford 12 months off anyway and have to return at 9 months due to last 3 months being unpaid.

Women have complained for years that their husbands are not equal parents, don't take their share of sick days, school events, childcare arrangements etc, but you can't have it both ways. Let him be an equal parent from the start if you both wish to retain your professional careers.

We did do the same thing and it really was brilliant.
I was gutted about going back to work, but it made it (marginally) easier knowing he was being cared for by his dad. DH said it was the best 3 months ever and he was grateful for the opportunity.
I think wife is being selfish - I totally understand why, but it's a chance they'll never get again and it should IMO be an experience that they should share.

Obviously that's not the case in this scenario but I'm trying to say that it must be very difficult for the DW at the moment. I think she's wrong going back on what had been agreed but I sympathise with her.

And they should do it slowly too.

DH takes 3 months paternity plus a bit of holiday
During the first few weeks, DW uses kit days and holiday to only go back 2/3 days a week.
This easing into it might soften the blow plus give them family time.

I don't know - I suppose I would feel a bit more strongly about men's rights to stay home and look after children if we lived in a society where it wasn't women who lost out economically every which way in relation to childbearing. I see that sharing mat / pat leave is supposed to be a way of evening that out as well, so possibly I am not being totally logical, but it's hard not to empathise with a woman who has already made all the sacrifices (in terms of wear and tear on her body and her career) who is now having to go back to work possibly just when her child is becoming his / her most interactive so that her husband gets his 'fair share'. I am not saying there is a simple answer

Sooo, she's not prepared to compromise at all.

Time to call her bluff and for the husband to take PL regardless thereby using up all any savings or causing them to have to modify their lifestyle temporarily accordingly.

Extended ML may not be so appealing if there's no money for shopping/eating out/coffees/activities with pfb/annual holiday etc.

She is OUT OF ORDER and using emotional arguments to get what she wants. What about what the husband wants - she's had her turn !

He has to accept it. There's no way round it - it is her leave to "give" him and he can't make her do it.

I have every sympathy for him. Dh is about to return to work after 6 months APL and it's a real wrench for him. These 6 months as principle carer for ds2 have been among the best in his life and he wouldn't have missed it for the world.

However, if it had been ds1, I don't think I'd have wanted to have given up my 12 months at home so I sympathise with her too. I returned to work 3 days a week with ds2 so I've had the best of both worlds.

Would their employers consider temporary part time working for both of them so they can share care over the next few months? I suspect the answer will be no, but it might be worth looking in to. Of course she may veto this as well.

Can he use annual leave, or some unpaid parental leave to care for his DC part time for a couple of months after she returns to work instead of the grandparents?

Well if they can't katandkit it'd be up to the DW to relinquish her extra 3 month wouldn't it. As a PP said, stating he's taking time off no matter what (including using up any savings etc) may be the thing that makes her change her mind.

That and what another poster said about the positive side of going back and being able to leave baby with someone you know and trust for 3 months rather than worrying when you go back about childcare. I hadn't thought of it that way but that would have been a huge bonus for me.

I think it's one of those situations where it's easy to think in advance 'oh, I'll go back and dh will stay home' but when it comes to the real thing it feels very difficult.

Distressing for her dh but also for her. All they can do is discuss and negotiate and try to find a way through.

The negative comments are irrelevant really, none of the disapproval is going to change her mind. And I'm not sure it's fair - leaving your child and going back to work is a huge deal. One thing to think about it in the abstract, another thing to do it.

Women do still do the lion's share of childcare, housework and family stuff. The fact that one man wants to play a part doesn't make him a saint no more than changing her mind makes his dw a sinner.

Agree entirely with edam

I thought parents could only take 5 weeks' unpaid parental leave in the child's first 5 years of life? Not 3 months?

I also agree that DW should stick to the original agreement.
I fail to see how it will be easier to go back to work after a year off, than 9 months off (and may well be harder) so I don't think that consideration comes into it.

Can she look at using a/l (she must have accrued quite a bit?) to go back to work on a part time basis?

I think it would be easier returning to work at 9 months knowing daddy is looking after their baby, than returning at 12 months and leaving the baby with childcare.

She's being selfish going back on the agreement really. Hopefully they can work something out.

It may just be me, but I think its abit unfair to come canvassing on here without the wifes knowledge. I also think you need to be careful about getting too involved in this. Its their marriage. They need to sort it out between them.

How are things generally in the marriage? I hate to say it, but could she be thinking about leaving him and trying to ensure she's seen as primary carer for residency reasons? I hope I'm wrong...

bearleftmonkeyright A asked me to get the collective opinion of MN in case he's being totally unreasonable. Agree that it's not my place to get involved, I'm merely the conduit for him.

As far as I'm aware there are no other major problems in the marriage - or at least A doesn't seem to think there are.

mrsminiverscharlady I hope you're wrong too - I very much doubt this is the case, they seem very much in love to me (from seeing them both together and from A's perspective) but obviously it's impossible to see into someone else's marriage from outside.

Are his work okay with him cancelling it?

Have to go now (and do some work!) but will check back later - A will talk to his DW again this evening, if he wants to update I will do so.

A says he will check the thread this afternoon so if you have any advice for negotiations then please speak up!

Ok, well all I can say to him is someone has to compromise. What's best for the baby is the primary concern. I went back to work full time when my dd was four month s, and my dp was sahp. It was tough for me. It can work. But I dont think either party has a moral right. I hope he can work it out with her but someone has to compromise here and if it is him, its not the end of the world and I dont think she is necessarily being selfish. Dont let resentment cloud your judgement. Hope that helps. Keep talking, you've only just begun as parent s.