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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to feel excluded by the use of a foreign language by family members?

146 replies

DonkeyDaddy · 11/03/2014 09:42

My wife is bilingual. Her mother has come to stay and whilst I was sat in the kitchen sending an email and my wife was folding some clothes up, my mother-in-law walked in and started talking to my wife in their native tongue, in which they continued to chat. They are both fluent in both languages and could have flipped between the two at will. There was nobody else present other than the three of us.

I felt excluded and not especially well treated. Am I being unreasonable to object? Or am I just being sensitive (or insensitive to them)?

OP posts:

LadyInDisguise · 12/03/2014 16:52

I think that context is everything there. We are not talking about 3 people who somehow know each other and socialize together but about a family.

I am slasys to are that it us somehow normal for the person who has moved country to learn all about the country if their partner, the language and the social norms but it isn't so the other way around. As if not living in their partner's country sort if allows them not to make the effort.

I think that in the case of the OP he should learn his wife language and stop feeling offended. What in earth is he going to do when they have dcs together? Expect everyone to speak English, which us the sure way for his dcs not to learn their mum' language? What would he have done if his MIL wasn't speaking English?

Quangle · 12/03/2014 16:52

I understand that it's lovely to spend time talking in your own language but presumably DW and MIL are alone together often when they can do this.

It is obviously rude to talk in a room with a close family member present so that they cannot understand, if there is another option. It might be a bit stilted but that's because you are making an effort to include the other person, not just focusing on communicating between the two of you. If only the two of you matter (or you are the only two present) then fine, but if you want to make everyone feel included you choose a language everyone in the room is familiar with.

I had a tutor at university who used to do this with my tutorial partner. They spent the first ten minutes of the lesson exchanging a bit of chit chat in a language I didn't know (this was in the UK so the default was obviously English). It was rude then and it still is. I didn't think they were being rude about me but they were excluding me.

Of course OP can choose to learn their language but that doesn't resolve the immediate issue and it's not always easy to learn another language as an adult whereas the DW and MIL have obviously got to a really good level in English.

LadyInDisguise · 12/03/2014 17:05

The MIL might have lived for 30years in the country it doesn't mean that she 'just have an accent' looks towards own parents who have been living more than 19 years in the UK but still aren't completely fluent
And his DW might even be born in the UK.

BUT the reality us that being together is an opportunity to speak their own language and I am sure it doesn't happen that often. It is the language they have always used together. So it would be strange for them to speak English when no one else is involved. And finally if the OP has some dcs, I would imagine that they will have family in HongKong that do not speak English. Does he not want to learn that language to be able to go there and not feel excluded at all time? looks at DH

LadyInDisguise · 12/03/2014 17:08

quangle who said the MIL has a good English? And who said that they have lots if opportunity to talk in their own language?
If they see each other with him around it looks like the default position should be English all the time
....
Very different issue than a tutor and a student IMO.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 12/03/2014 18:06

OP said at the start They are both fluent in both languages.

NigellasDealer · 12/03/2014 18:11

ye but his idea of fluent does not mean that they feel comfortable expressing themselves in their second or third language, does it?
also if you read the Op it clearly states he was busy on his laptop so why should a mother and daughter chat in a foreign language for his benefit?

whatever5 · 12/03/2014 18:22

DH does this with his relatives who are also fluent in English. I wouldn't mind in the circumstances you describe but I do find it rude if we're all sitting around a dinner table for example. It makes me feel quite excluded and I avoid visiting them nowadays.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 12/03/2014 18:34

I'm fluent in Italian. I'm still not going to start speaking it with my bilingual daughter just to make her Italian and monolingual cousins/Aunts etc feel better.

If we are in a conversation all together with them included, fair enough, I will and do. If I'm speaking to her, then we speak English. It's why she's bilingual and the other kid in her school with an English parent and an Italian one isn't. And pays for English lessons. From me ironically.

I do speak Italian to her in circumstances like today, when her best friend came for lunch. Because she's a little girl who might feel left out, not a grown man.

LadyInDisguise · 12/03/2014 18:37

Have you tried to learn your DH language??? So you aren't excluded from conversation with his family??? Or are you assuming they should speak English just because if you?
Seriously I don't understand.

When I go back to my own country DH is excluded as he doesn't speak. At the start I tried translating which was awful for everyone. There was no flow in the conversation. Friends and family were uncomfortable (you see they were feeling excluded too when u spoke to DH in English) and a
He still was feeling excluded. The result us that like you he doesn't come with me anymore. He excluded himself completely :(

LadyInDisguise · 12/03/2014 18:40

Drank agree about the children too. If you want bilingual children you do need to speak to them as often as possible in your language. And that will mean speaking when other people are around.

DrankSangriaInThePark · 12/03/2014 18:43

I agree too about learning each other's language.

I've had relationships with a fair few people who aren't English, and if you want to truly truly know a person, you want to know their culture, their roots, what makes them them. And their language is a pretty big part of that.

whatever5 · 12/03/2014 18:44

LadyInDisguise- learning a language would be very difficult and time for some of us. I'm certainly not going to do it just so I can communicate with the in laws (who speak perfect English) once or twice a year.... As far as I'm concerned if they can't be bothered to speak English when I'm there, I can't be bothered to visit.

DH always speaks to our children in his native language and I have no problems with that. I just think he should speak to the adults in his family in English if for example we are sitting around a dinner table.

LadyInDisguise · 12/03/2014 18:53

Really???
What are you going to do when your dcs are going to speak that language to their dad and you don't understand?
Oh I know they won't be allowed to speak that language either. So instead of having the chance if being Bingham they'll just learn English.

Sorry you got married to someone who isn't English, what did you expect? His whole family to speak English for the sake of one person that doesn't want to make any effort?
And when they see each other once a year, making an effort us do bad that you can't even make the effort for that one and only time

NobodyLivesHere · 12/03/2014 19:07

I speak fluent English, that doesn't mean it's not harder for me to speak English than it is Welsh. I think in welsh, so it's always easier and more comfortable for me to speak welsh. My children are bilingual from birth, I speak to them in welsh, my ex in English. We went to England to stay with friends and I still spoke to them in welsh. It's not rude, it's just natural.

whatever5 · 12/03/2014 19:08

What are you going to do when your dcs are going to speak that language to their dad and you don't understand?

Er.. Why do you assume that they are going to speak that language back. They haven't done so yet and they are 10 and 13. They always reply in Engish. Anyway, I can understand what he is saying to them, I'm just not fluent.

Sorry you got married to someone who isn't English, what did you expect? His whole family to speak English for the sake of one person that doesn't want to make any effort?

I didn't say that I have made no effort but it would take me years to speak another language fluently (I didn't even pass o level french) and frankly there aren't enough hours in the day nowadays. Anyway, I don't expect my in laws to speak English but if they can't be bothered despite speaking it fluently then I can't be bothered to visit.

LadyInDisguise · 12/03/2014 19:26

Just :(

LRDtheFeministDragon · 12/03/2014 19:37

Learning a language isn't the issue (though, arguably, trying to may be a big part of it).

I don't speak DH's language. I've tried, and I'm terrible at it. And I will go on trying.

The fact I don't speak it doesn't mean I'm incapable of respecting the fact it is his mother tongue and he is sometimes going to want to speak it in front of me.

TheKitchenWitch · 12/03/2014 20:28

I think context is important here. They weren't actually excluding you as such, as you were doing something else.
It's sort of comparable to MIL coming in and talking to your DW about something you know nothing at all about, without filling you in on all the details because you're not actually part of that conversation (being busy with the email).
If you were all sitting down to dinner and they were carrying on a conversation in their language, then yes, I'd think that was rude.

fieldfare · 12/03/2014 20:40

I think you're being a bit uptight OP.

I've been with my Dh for 8 years, his parents are Italian but he was born in London and as such he speaks both languages fluently. His parents still prefer to speak Italian and when we're there they don't really change that for me. I actually wouldn't expect them to and over the years have learnt enough to be able to understand what they're talking about, not every word but I get the gist enough to take part. I'm not confident enough to speak it really, but if you marry someone and take part in their family life then you have to learn enough to get by!

sykadelic · 12/03/2014 23:29

It totally dependent on the situation and people.

How WE feel about it isn't relevant (though yes I do agree I find it quite rude to not even consider you or bring it up and ask if you mind), you don't like it and you need to tell your wife you think it's rude to do it in your presence and come up with a signal or maybe you should just say "what are we talking about?" to remind them you're there. You then have the option of saying "Oh! Carry on then!" or being involved.

I understand why you're upset because it IS rude and to me would feel like she walked up, turned her back to me and started speaking to other people and ignoring me. You couldn't participate and weren't involved.

All that said, it IS easy to slip into "home mode". I've noticed with foreign friends their accents gets thicker and my husband has noticed my speech speeds up and my accent gets thicker (Australian) when talking to mum or my friends. I certainly don't do it on purpose, and yes it's still English, but when I talk too quickly he misses thing.

paragirl1981 · 13/03/2014 20:26

I know a couple where the dw is Dutch and the dh is British. If they go anywhere and happen to bump into any other Dutch people she isn't allowed to tell them she's Dutch! Apparently it's so they don't all sit there chatting away in Dutch and excluding him.

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