to feel excluded by the use of a foreign language by family members?

[DonkeyDaddy]

My wife is bilingual. Her mother has come to stay and whilst I was sat in the kitchen sending an email and my wife was folding some clothes up, my mother-in-law walked in and started talking to my wife in their native tongue, in which they continued to chat. They are both fluent in both languages and could have flipped between the two at will. There was nobody else present other than the three of us.

I felt excluded and not especially well treated. Am I being unreasonable to object? Or am I just being sensitive (or insensitive to them)?

I'm terrible at learning DH's language. I've been trying for yonks and I've barely got more than a few words (it doesn't help that he hates teaching me).

I still wouldn't demand he spoke to his parents in English all the time.

They were rude.

But you don't mention what they said when you asked them to stop?

Your wife can speak to her mother any damn way she likes.

LRD is right.

I always speak to my daughter in English, although I now speak the local language, Russian, fairly well (and my daughter will be bilingual). I'd take a very dim view of anyone who objected, especially in a domestic setting.

I don't get at you wouldn't bother learning a language that is spoken by members of your family, simply because it's not widely spoken in general

Because there are no resources.

MsMischief, that thing you said about not learning your family's language because it was 'obscure' struck me. But surely, even if it's not a significant 'world language', it's hardly obscure in your life if your family use it?

It's not obscure in my family but that doesn't mean it would be easy to learn. All my generation of the family are British born. They might slip in and out of it some of the time, and to a lesser extent the majority language of the country but not enough for me to be able to pick it up by immersion.

It is very difficult to learn a very obscure language for the reasons others have said- complete lack of learning materials, no opportunity to use it much with others socially, lack of cultural resources and so on. I don't speak my husband's language very well at all, though I do understand it a bit and have learned some aspects of it- enough to know what the topic of conversation is and be polite at least.

The OP hasn't answered the question though- will he feel similarly if his wife speaks to their children in this other language? How on earth will the children learn this other language if they always switch to English in his presence? (which is against all the advice on encouraging bilingualism)

LRD if it's not too identifying, what language are you trying to learn? And do you know if there's types of courses you would find impossible to follow?

God it would piss me off.

They are probably slagging you off.

They were chatting to each other. You, op, were sending an email so otherwise engaged. So...your wife and MIL are supposed to talk in your language when talking to each other, just because of your presence? I think you are being massively unreasonable, actually.

Maybe address the feeling excluded thing. It sounds irrational from this 'snapshot'.

It would annoy me as it would make me feel uncomfortable in my own home.

All those saying 'just learn the language' - really? As I recall from being at school, learning a new language isn't that simple, particularly when you have work and kids it is hard to make a commitment to learn anything new surely?!

Maybe by "obscure" the poster meant it was a v difficult language to learn. Like Mandarin as opposed to something like German, for example.

It's not like the difference between Mandarin and German, it's like the difference between German and one of the Saxon dialects. To compound it, their is no distinct written language, and the writing isn't phonetic anyway.

My gut reaction is no sympathy and to learn the language that your wife speaks. It's a simple courtesy towards her family. Do you have children? Are/will they be allowed to learn their mother tongue if you don't understand it?

When I met DH I didn't speak a word of Italian. None of his family spoke English so I had to learn pdq. Did courses, watched italian tv and studied at home. Took me a few years to get fluent but the gesture meanwhile was appreciated.

Now we have a son we do OPOL. I speak to him in English always, even if the people we are with don't understand. Don't care if they think it's rude.

You haven't said what language so clearly if it's a hard one it may not be easy but I still think you need to learn it.

Yabu why don't you learn your dp's language? I assume you live in a country where your mother tongue is the local language? Do you have kids? If so do they not speak your dp's language with her?

I speak to my ds in English even when around family members who don't speak English, it would feel very odd indeed for me to switch to Swedish despite being able to speak Swedish, English is the language I speak to ds in and that won't change regardless of who I'm around.

But it is the op's wife's home too! Why shouldn't she talk to her mother in the language they both feel most at ease in?? Won't that make her uncomfortable? The more I think about this, the more weird and annoying it seems.

YABU! You knew your wife was bilingual when you married her. Why do you want to interfere in the way she communicates with her mother. You sound very self centred.

PorkPieandPickle - also, his wife learned his language. She could manage it, why can't he?

Yabu. I take from what you are saying that you either speak only English, or you speak another language to such a level of fluency that it really would be second nature.

English is second nature to me, but I still prefer to talk to my sister in Norwegian. We speak English when my husband is part of the conversation. He speaks Norwegian. I would not pressurize him to speak Norwegian with us though, as his language is limited, and my sister speaks better English. Equally, why force your MIL to speak a language where her communication skills are less? And for talking to her own daughter?

You were busy writing emails in kitchen, I reckon it did not involve you at all. Perhaps she did not want to disturb you and drag you in to the conversation?

Gotcha, MsMischief. I did manage to learn an obscure Arabic dialect because I needed to at one point, but I see what you mean. I had to rely heavily on a teacher of the standard version explaining differences and vocabulary, as there were no written resources.

Just pick up on a point someone else made earlier, I speak several languages but it is very difficult to switch to speaking to someone you know in a language that isn't the usual one you speak with them. My French is fluent, but because I know my two closest Francophone friends from our time at a UK university, we always speak English together, wherever we are, unless there's someone else present who doesn't speak it well. It feels stiff and strange.

I'm in the minority in agreeing that it was rude. If you're in someone else's home as a visitor, to walk into a room they're in and start speaking a language that excludes them is rude.

" but it is very difficult to switch to speaking to someone you know in a language that isn't the usual one you speak with them. "

I second that. My husband and I dont "know eachother" in Norwegian. It does not make sense.

Maybe it is rude to work and reply to emails in a room such as the kitchen? It excludes people from talking to you when you are busying yourself?

Would it not been different if you and your wife were sitting chatting together over a cup of tea/coffee, and mil joined your conversation? Would she have ignored you and addressed her daughter in their native language then?

You are being over-sensitive. I, too, am bilingual and married to a mono-lingual dh. I do my best to speak in English when he's around, whether or not he is included in the conversation - but I am often unaware when I flip from language to language. I have offered to teach him my family's language. He doesn't want to. His choice.

I would never use my mother-tongue so that dh would not understand. My mum tried this, but I refused to do it.

As long as you DW and ILs are not trying to exclude you, then YABU to expect them to avoid their mother-tongue.

Yes, that's exactly it, Quint. At some deep level, I 'don't know' my French-speaking friends in French.

PorkPieandPickle

All those saying 'just learn the language' - really? As I recall from being at school, learning a new language isn't that simple, particularly when you have work and kids it is hard to make a commitment to learn anything new surely?!

Learning a language you don't want to learn at school, when you see absolutely no reason for it or just want to pass an exam and forget it forever (which is the attitude of most British school children) is completely different from learning a language you want to learn as an adult.

I am doing very well with the ones I'm learning, and I'm not even in a country where they're spoken.

I speak to DH in English. He answers me in Italian. It's tiring having to constantly double translate your thoughts into the other language and then speak it to, especially when it's not always easy to do a literal translation.

I should add, my husband is Polish, so he speaks English, Polish and Norwegian, with a brief understanding of German and Russian. Through knowing Norwegian, he can also read Danish and Swedish.

But, I dont know any Polish. This means that I am often a bit bored at family dinners, because conversation will often start flowing in Polish, because his elderly relatives speak very little English. I dont get a hump and feel they are rude, or impolite to me as the guest.

I think this is just par for the course in a relationship across culture and language barriers. Being a bit flexible, tolerant and not take yourself too seriously will serve you well!