To really want to say something to these abortion protestors?

[Crocodileclip]

Firstly, I know I will probably never say anything as I appreciate that the protestors have the right to protest but it really pisses me off.

A small group of people have been protesting outside the Marie Stoppes clinic in Belfast since it opened in 2012. They stand outside the door on the days it is open holding anti abortion posters and trying to gather signatures for a petition. I pass them on my way to get to the station at home time and every time it annoys me. I can't imagine how offputting they would be if you were young and scared and just wanting some advice. Lots of pics of aborted foetuses etc. I find it intimidating enough myself and I am just walking past. I actually put my head down and walk quicker so that nobody asks me to sign the petition.

I'm currently pregnant with my second and am lucky never to have been in a position where abortion was an option but am of the opinion that there are situations in which it may be the best option available.

The clinic itself operates within NI law so only offers abortions up to 9 weeks and as far as I know is the only such clinic in Northern Ireland. I think I would be ok with the protestors doing their stuff elsewhere in the city centre it is the fact that it is just outside the only entrance to the clinc that makes me irrationally angry. Does this happen at other Marie Stoppes clinics elsewhere in the UK?

I don't think pro choicers a few and far between at all. I think most people accept that a woman is perfectly able to decide for herself what is right for her.

I'm not going to tell a woman she should continue with an unwanted pregnancy because of my beliefs. My beliefs are mine. Her beliefs, like her womb, are hers.

Sauce, genuine pro-choices who think a woman should be allowed to terminate a pregnancy for any reason right up to term are few and far between. Most 'pro-choicers' are only pro-choice up to a point (usually around the 24 week mark)

Ah I see what you mean. I think you're right that many people support the current legislation.

This may speed things up a little...

Actually, recent surveys have shown that a majority would like the time limit to be reduced from 24 weeks. This was followed by people who wanted it to stay the same. Only a small percentage thought it should be increased. (Probably MNers)

I repeat, I am totally pro choice. So that's at least one on this thread. Probably not as rare as you think. It's just that's it a hard opinion to voice in the current climate of utter fetishism around being a parent.

If a fetus is unwanted it can be unwanted at 6 weeks or 36 weeks.

Pomme, they're very much in the minority in surveys. There are a few on MN though.

Pro lifers are a minority too. Just a very noisy bossy one.

There aren't too many making noise on this thread. The 'pro-choicers' tend to be much noisier (and ruder) on MN.

I'm pro-woman. I respect a woman's right to make her own choices.

I consider myself the same as Hop.

Genuine pro-choices who think that a woman should be able to choose to have an abortion for any reason to term are few and far between.

Well I'm one of those. In much the same way that I think a law to allow free speech "as long as I like what they are saying" is wrong, I think a law to allow abortion "as long as I (or my priest) agree with the reasons" is wrong.

Either a woman owns her own body or she doesn't. If you want to limit it then you have to declare that women are not really people and don't have equal rights. I'm a man so will never have an abortion, but I don't want to live in a society that would deny that equality.

It used to be that women were considered not really up to making decisions, so men had to tell you all what to do. Before that it was black people who were 'like children' so needed someone to own and rule them for their own good.

I can just about see how some men might long for those times, but why would any woman want to go back to that?

Back if a woman wants an induction at any time during her pregnancy that is fine with me she does not have to stay pregnant unwillingly.

And who is going to look after and care for and raise that baby, born at 25 weeks?

So there's a few true pro choicers on this thread then?!

Hop all if these issues are unpalatable. The pregnancy is terminated the woman is no longer pregnant that is a woman's right IMO. After that you are dealing with the rights of the baby and if extraordinary measures do not need to be taken to prolong a babies life then I do not see that it is any different to any other situation where a mother does not feel she is able to look after her child.

So you would rather thousands more children (possibly disabled, so even less chance of finding a home and family) end up in care?

Hop there is no evidence to suggest that many women have abortions post 24 weeks when they are available so where are your thousands of babies coming from.

anothernumberone I think what you're suggesting is meant to be a reasonable compromise, but I think it raises more issues.

Imagine you had to write the law for it.

Would you attempt to save each one? If you tried to draw a line at say 25wks that would mean you requiring midwives to kill any younger than that once 'born' and the Pro Lifers would be calling you a monster for drawing a line anywhere.

If you attempt to keep them all alive at 20wks, 15wks and lower then that's going to be pretty awful isn't it.

What about those babies currently being aborted because their only expectation is a life of hours or days in great pain? You override the mother's wishes and keep it alive and then what?

It doesn't really work out does it.

I don't have imagine a law Back that is the law as it was recently changed with much fanfare in Ireland. If a baby is viable the pregnancy is terminated not the baby when continuing with the pregnancy would be injurious to the mother's life. Believe me I am not proporting to support the extent of that legislation but the fact is that these interventions occur all the time to save mother's lives in non terminated pregnancies. As I said none if this is palatable it is dancing on the shades of grey that are out there.

So basically rather than a woman going through a medical abortion at 12 weeks, you want her to go through labour? The result is the same. You just want the woman to suffer.

I like "dancing on the shades of grey".

I think Ireland will change their law on it again, and then again and again in the coming years. I realise it must be difficult to change their views and rules overnight and it will have to happen in small steps.

Hop I presume you are not talking to me there or at least I don't believe I said that and it is certainly not what I believe. There is no viable baby at 12 weeks. I am not getting into a debate here about women's right to have a termination at 36 weeks. I have been there before on Mumsnet and I heard everyone's very interesting views on the topic and I have not changed my opinion on the matter notwithstanding listening to others views. This thread is about people protesting outside an abortion clinic which I cannot countenance. I will stick to the topic from now on. I don't want to sound like an arse but there are a million cans of worms that I have already opened on the previous thread and it was very interesting but very wearing.

Back I can only hope they do change it, I hate the current situation.

I was 9 weeks pregnant this week, I've since miscarried but had seriously considered a termination.

I'm in Ireland so the expense and difficulty would have been enormous but I just want to share my reasons for the benefit of the prolifers on this thread.

I have 3 children already, two with sn and all with varying medical issues. We have no money, we'd need a new car and all baby equipment as I gave everything away but barely have money to feed our existing choldren. I'd have had to drop my university course in my final year after working my ass off for 5 years to get to this point. I'd have lost my job as it's quite manual and I'm a casual employee so not protected in any way.

There were a thousand and one cons and not a single pro to continuing with this pregnancy.

We were using protection, and in fact didn't even have sex around the time I supposedly got pregnant, once before my last period and then not til after my next period was late... So we have no idea how this happened and could certainly not be accused of taking chances or being careless.

I, like many others here, do believe life starts at conception. But what life would this child have had? Brought up in poverty, unwanted, damaging our family irreparably, in constant danger from older siblings with sn, resented. My mental health would have suffered, our whole family would have suffered beyond words.

Despite that I had reached a point where I no longer felt able to abort personally... Due to the lack of access to abortion services here it would have been too far into the pregnancy for me to abort by the time I'd gathered enough money to do so. But I would not judge another woman in my position for aborting because it is without a doubt the best outcome.

Luckily my body took matters into its own hands and I lost the pregnancy this week, as quite honestly having it would have been disastrous for all concerned.

If I had opted for termination, given the trauma I would already be going through due to that decision, I can't imagine how horrifying it would have been to be accosted by protesters outside the clinic. How much more that would have damaged me emotionally.

The assumption that women want to be there is ludicrous, no woman is willingly in the position of needing to terminate a pregnancy. The 'bunch of cells' descriptor is a preservation tactic.

And yes, like another poster I thought of this pregnancy as a parasite, an invasion of my body by an unwanted organism.