Convince me that having a larger car than you need is not selfish.

[Rooners]

Because I cannot think of a single reason why it's not. I'm talking about cars that are huge for the sake of it, not cars that carry wheelchairs, or loads of people, in a relatively compact and utilitarian manner.

But something that only has 4/5 seats yet is the size of a small tractor - and no, I don't think this is wrong if you live somewhere with poor terrain. But if you don't?

1. They take up more space when the last things we need on our crowded roads are unnecessarily supersized vehicles.

1. You can't see past them because they are often much higher than 'normal' cars - great for the person driving the thing, rubbish for everyone else

1. They tend to use a larger amount of fuel than a 'normal' car - which is, unarguably, utterly unfair given the fuel crisis the world is facing.

1. They don't fit into a normal parking space which causes untold problems in car parks.

1. They don't fit in a narrow road so cause hold ups as people try to pass each other.

So please convince me, if you can be bothered, that I ought not to be so cross when I am trying to use the roads and one of these massive tanks makes it difficult, dangerous or just really bloody awkward.

I am willing to listen. It's that or spontaneous combustion really.

I love old volvo estates. I can see over them as well, it's great.

How do people know that others don't NEED things? Do you ask them? do you stalk them to find out where they live, how many kids/dogs/goats they have? investigate their lifestyles?

You have no idea of what my families needs are but you will assume because we own a 4x4 that is not kept in the countryside that we have no need for it and are twats for owning one.

Rooners thanks for answering. I know that when I had only driven small cars I could have misjudged how much space a lorry would need. Since you have driven a Transit then I guess you do just live in a part of the country with very narrow roads.

The problem is that you will never know which cars are unneccessarily huge because you don't know the lifestyles of the people involved.

Jeeps aren't that big are they? They always look kind of small and compact to me.

Overfinch - not so much.

the absolute worst drivers imo are either driving audis of any size, or those teeny tiny cars. many drivers of tiny cars appear totally unable to steer them, cant park them, drive at 2mph as they appear terrified of higher speeds, cant move forwards at roundabouts, never signal as they cant take both hands off the wheel etc etc etc

ban small cars

YANBU but it's a case of looking to the beam in one's own eye first, isn't it? 90% at least of the stuff we all buy/consume is not necessary and is therefore "selfish" in terms of planetary well being. Are we going to give it all up? No, probably not until we have a lot more flooding.

Nothing would induce me to buy a large car, but I don't feel I have the right to criticise those that do as I take foreign holidays which are certainly not necessary. And I buy flowers flown in from abroad. And I have more than 4 outfits and 2 pairs of shoes.

Jeep wranglers are small but they do also have the ones the same as the BMW 4x4's

I once read someone on here say they had a 4x4 as it meant her children were safer in a crash, even if that meant a pedestrian child or children in another vehicle would be more at risk.

roads in this country aren't built to accommodate large vehicles, that's one of the biggest problems. Medieval (and older) cities with twisty narrow alleys, tiny country lanes - it's not America. And yes, of course you can park in a parking space (just about, as a PP said), but there's not a whole lot of space around you - many a time I've struggled to get back into my car thank to the behemouth parked next to me, and if it's parked badly, which is often....

I'm puzzled by some of these arguments. Apparently, because I have a small car, I should be:

changing it regularly
living in a new-build
have a tumble drier
fly a lot
not be veggie (odd one, that, but DH and DD are veggie and i don't eat much meat - meat eating does have a massive environmental impact, but getting meat eaters to change their ways is on a par with getting - well - massive car owners to change theirs!)

but yet, I don't do any of those things. I do have a king size bed (well, mattress on the floor, don't actually have a bed anymore), though as that has zero impact on anyone else, I'm not sure about that as an argument, either.

Binky, I don't assume you are a twat. I suspect your motives.

Obviously I have no way to gauge people's requirements apart from what they admit to. On here, frequently, in these threads people will say 'I'll drive what I bloody well want to, and no, I don't need it' which leads me to believe there is a contingent of selfish twits out there.

That doesn't necessarily include you and I am sorry if you get tarred with the same brush. That's their fault really

I can park mine with enough space to get three kids out of both sides - because I can park - you are confusing bad drivers with drivers of big cars

Fortunately, OP, you will never be privy to my embarrassment because it's not there and I'll be miles down the road ahead of you

RiverTam - yes, society is built (well ths one is) for people to eat meat, or at least dairy, and to drive reasonably sized vehicles.

There seems to be a paradoxical sway towards having oversized cars almost because they don't fit, and are environmentally damaging, and not everyone can have one.

It's like me saying, 'I've been veggie for such and such years, fuck it. give me a massive cheeseburger. That'll show the bastards.'

Which bastards am I trying to show?

And the higher cars need to be to see over everyone else, the higher all the rest will get, and eventually cars will be like, ten foot tall.

Torcat, your neighbour would probably be an arse and park like that regardless of what kind of car he had. And good to see the audi bashing has started!

I had to laugh. My sil constantly moaned at us about carbon footprint, fuel consumption blah blah blah. Until she got given a 10 year old Land Rover. To drive about London.

I don't think our society was built around car use - I don't think the designers of all the ancient pretty little villages had time machines and could anticipate the arrival of the motor vehicle

I did read lots of accounts, during the recent floods, of selfish 4x4 owners taking kids to school for their flooded neighbours and buying food and stuff - selfish pigs

Rooners Less, I have indeed lifted many bales of hay - can you stop assuming I never bother to lift or move anything myself?

But you are assuming that most people who have big cars don't need them. Just because I don't have 6 bales of hay or half a kitchen in my car at the particular moment in time that you see me, doesn't mean to say that I never do. Just because that mountain biker who sleeps on an air mattress in the back of his large car the night before his weekend race isn't doing so at that particular time doesn't ever do it. Just because a woman is driving a big car on her own doesn't mean she should be a target for derision and called wasteful.

Just because you can't tell my X5 is converted to LPG, doesn't mean that it isn't. Just because my old Merc runs well, looks good and has a private plate doesn't mean it hasn't done a high mileage and is 18 years old.

Seriously. Count the number of big, old cars on the road, and then the number of small, old cars. The former outnumber the latter. There is a reason for that. They are built to do higher milages. That is more environmentally friendly.

It is a bit like an arms race. My husband has submitted us (without my consent) to the nonsense.

Gordy I have a big white 4x4 with tinted windows - sadly not a drug dealer - quiet possibly a twat

Mine has those windows too. I fully intend to put an air mattress in it and sleep in the back when I do my long promised tour of northern Scandinavia!

I don't see how on earth you can deem 'most' drivers of huge 4x4s (because, let's face it, that's what you're talkingabout, isn't it?) selfish without knowing why thye have chosen that car.

I 'only' have 3 children. Given some of the choices I have made for those children, I 'need' a bigger car. Those reasons range from a lengthy school run on poor roads, to 'needing' a 4x4, and then things like the car seats I use (ERF for eg, which are large) which are chosen with my lifestyle/daily driving route in mind.

You would look at me driving along and think 'shiny 4x4, must be a twat', especially if you knew where I lived. BUt you would have no idea as to why that car had been chosen - you might assume it is becasue it is an expensive status symbol, or fashionable but that says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Oh LessMissAbs I am envious of your trip - I am debating a 3 night break in Copenhagen in May so I can drive (my big 4x4) of The Bridge

Rooners I feel the same. The justification for a larger car seems often to be that it is safer in a collision. Safer for who? Not for other road users. It's like a large car arms race - I need a bigger car to be safer; now I need an even bigger car to be safer, because all the other cars on the road are so large, and on it goes...

Virtually nobody in the UK NEEDS a 4 by 4. You might want one.

We have driven road trips in Iceland over roads that are virtually unmade, for miles. No 4 by 4 necessary. If you do off road driving through streams for example, you NEED a 4 by 4. Everything else is just a want.

I kind of get the argument of using up less resources for the good of society but I don't think targeting large cars is the only solution. In fact the UK has quite a culture of driving large old scruffy cars less wastefully than some smaller quickly replaced ones.

I know in Holland, driving my 18 year old Merc is par excellence. It is old enough to not be flashy and big enough to be practical. But the Dutch think about more things to save space, such as having 3 storey terraced houses, a fully integrated cycle path system adjacent to most roads and trains that people want to use.

In the UK, you have to adapt to the environment. Because the cycle culture isn't there and the public transport doesn't reach those villages at the end of twisty lanes, people end up driving cars. I don't think encouraging people to drive small cars and think themselves very environmentally friendly is the solution - I think its quite short sighted and a bit dim actually. If you actually encouraged people to think about things like how much more resources replacing a small car every few years costs compared to keeping one bigger, higher quality car on the road, then yes. In fact, surely people can work it out for themselves?

Oh come off it Grennie. Most Icelanders are obsessed with their large cars, preferably 4 x 4 with camper/tent attachments, so they can drive across the wilderness, or at least have the potential not to get stuck there if the weather turns. We counted ourselves very lucky to get across one of the middle roads at the end of August without the weather turning and stranding us.