To think that ALL smoking (cigarettes and e-cigs) should be banned in public places?!

[babybearsmummy]

I've been sat in my GP waiting room with my little girl waiting for my appt and in walks a lady puffing away on an e-cig. She hasn't put it away and is just sat smoking it.

AIBU to think this is rude and that, just because it's not an actual cigarette, the same rules should apply, mainly because it's stinking the whole waiting room out!?!

Having fully functioning lungs

here

Arf at all the wanna be scientist on here!

Good point about smokers outside in the cold, wind, rain and snow.

I think some people like the fact that smokers are more likely to get ill this way.

Has it already been mentioned that the reason the government want to find ridiculous reasons to ban ecigs, is because they don't make the huge amount of tax that they do from tobacco?

THAT'S why they want to 'regulate' it. To tax all us poor fuckers like they did when we smoked.

Anyone that thinks the government are trying to save our health is deluded. IMO

YABU. Next you will be forbidding people from wearing perfume for fear of offending your over sensitive nose. Give people break and good on them for giving up. I would say it was none of your business if they choose to smoke an e cig and where they choose to do it.

I think it's inevitable tbh Precious. They will find a way to punish us somehow! This whole smokescreen of wanting to regulate it is just biding their time until they can slam a load of tax on it to make up for what they're losing.

I sound paranoid don't I?

A quick google brings up that the current cost to the NHS of smoking related diseases costs somewhere between £2-5bn. Current revenue from smoking related products nets the treasury in the region of £25bn.

With those figures, does anyone really think the government want everyone to quit smoking?

Not to mention that many smokers die young and won't be claiming a pension for 30 years and all the associated costs of NHS intervention for minor issues. And major, such as dementia. Absolutely in their interests for people to keep smoking.

Ecigs are brilliant. DH (42) has given up for over a year now, having smoked since he was 15, and 20 fags a day.

YABU I have been vaping for 3 weeks now after 18 years of smoking. I can't believe how bad smokers/ing smell when I walk past them, and I used to smell like that So far I have dropped from 18mg to 11mg nicotine eliquid. And I intend to drop to 0 within a couple of months.

I do agree that it might be disconcerting for people to see vaping indoors, but as the health risks from secondhand vapour appear so far to be minimal I can't see why there is so much hand wringing.

Having watched a grandmother flick fag ash onto her granddaughter this morning whilst holding her hand on a climbing frame; I do think real cigarettes should be banned from playgrounds. And to be honest I think the same rules should apply to e-cigarettes indoors as real fags. It's irrational but I do.

But LittleBear WHY should the same rules be applied? The rules were there for a very good reason, to prevent passive smoking. There is no smoke produced by an e-cig so any rule treating them the same is just prejudice. You admit the feeling is irrational, so maybe you could rethink it?

Why should I rethink it? I don't grab e-cigs out of people's hands in pubs. I just don't think they should be using them.

Because embracing a prejudice that you know has no founding in fact is in general a bad mind-set to have? Damning people by very tenuous association is exceptionally unfair - just because most vapers are EX-smokers, and they are controlling their nicotine addiction using something that may or may not have a passing resemblance to a cigarette, they must be punished. Do you feel the same about fat people eating crisps & nuts in the pub, or tucking into a big meal?

It's irrational but I do.

So if you were asked to vote to ban e-cig would you do so or would you say "well my feeling is irrational so I better not".

The other big opponent of ecigs is the pharmaceutical industry. Last year for the first time more people used an ecig to quit smoking than used conventional NRT (gums, patches, inhalators etc.). Maybe there's a connection.

Oddly, maybe, I have heard nobody talking about taxing ecigs (beyond the usual vat) - just banning regulating them (out of existence).

LittleBearPad, if ecigs are banned indoors they don't just disappear. What happens is that vapers end up standing outside WITH SMOKERS. Not only are they then subject to SHS but they are at high risk of relapsing and starting smoking again. Your irrational prejudice has some very big health implications.

So, I thought I'd put a post together about what's happening in Europe and those who care can do about it ...

Where we're at now: Last week, the EU voted in favour of adopting the Tobacco Products Directive, including Article 18a (now renamed Article 20) which concerns ecigs. You can read the full text of Article 20 here. This legislation is likely to come into force in May of this year and member states will have up to 30 months to comply (but they don't have to wait that long!)

• No device on the market today could comply with this legislation except cig-alikes with disposable cartridges - the sort produced by big tobacco and big pharma.

• No e-liquid over 20mg/ml will be legal (18mg/ml in practice to allow for a margin of error) - an estimated one quarter of vapers use liquid above this strength and are likely to return to smoking if they cannot get it.

• The requirement for all new devices to be approved six months before coming to market will kill innovation in the EU. Currently it is usual to see new versions of products released every few weeks.

• The notification regime will be too expensive for small companies to comply with. 98% of the market is made up of SMEs. Meanwhile, big tobacco and pharma will have no problem absorbing the costs.

• Restrictions on sponsorship will mean it becomes very difficult for forums, youtube channels and other sources of information to survive.

What we can do: A European Citizen's Initiative has been launched by European Free Vaping Initiative. 'The European citizens' initiative allows one million EU citizens to participate directly in the development of EU policies, by calling on the European Commission to make a legislative proposal.'

This is not just another petition. Numerous hurdles have already been cleared to set it up and secure the necessary representatives in countries across the EU. The initiative now needs 1 million 'statements of support' (basically signatures) by 25th November and for at least 7 member states to meet their 'quota' - a set number of signatures based on population.

If the required number of signatures is reached, it means that vapers themselves will have the opportunity to present their case to the EU and propose sensible legislation for ecigs to replace article 20 of the TPD.

Who should sign:

• vapers
• smokers, because you might want to try switching one day
• friends and family of vapers
• friends and family of smokers
• people who don't like being around smokers or who worry about SHS
• people who care about harm reduction and saving lives

How to sign:

• Go here - www.efvi.eu/
• Scroll down to the big green rectangle and click it
• Fill in your info on the EU site

You will be asked to provide your full name, address and DOB. This is because this is not just another petition, it's an official EU process - they need to check you are a genuine EU citizen.

Please also ask your families, friends, colleagues etc. to sign and share on FB, Twitter or whatever else you do online.

I smoke an e cig but I wouldn't do it in places were I couldn't smoke a real fag, buses,buildings,planes etc
But if I saw someone else doing it,I wouldn't be horrified as they are only breathing out vapour!

yabu,

The act of banning vaping in public places needs to be implemented the day after cars/vans/lorries/trains central heating and power stations produce zero harmful emissions.
Until that day comes people have got their priorities wrong.

I've just read the article 20 linked in the post above, amongst others this bit really annoyed me;
"any form of public or private contribution to any event, activity or individual with the aim or direct or indirect effect of promoting electronic cigarettes and refill containers and involving or taking place in several Member States or otherwise having cross-border effects is prohibited;”

A lot of people on this thread would find themselves breaking the law if that comes into force.

That particular bit sounds worse than it is, psynl. 'contribution' means payment, sponsorship or other incentive. There's a discussion about it in the comments on that page, about halfway down.

What it will mean though is that the vaping forums, youtube channels and some blogs will find it hard to continue as at the moment they fund themselves by carrying ecig ads or do reviews of kit sent for free from the ecig companies.

No back I wouldn't ban e cigarettes nor have I said I would . if I have to explain my apparent 'prejudice' then it would be as follows. The smoking ban made smoking less obvious, at least where I live, apart from the two or three smokers gathered round the pub door, usually freezing or getting rained on or filling the beer garden with smoke because the pub had put up massive parasols with heaters, it made it less commonplace, perhaps some people gave up.

Ecigarettes make smoking more normal again, perhaps more socially acceptable - people can't ostensibly complain about second hand smoke and passive smoking. But it's still being addicted to nicotine, which isn't good for you.

And why does using ecigarettes mean you aren't a smoker anymore. The nicotine delivery method is simply different.

Same reason people using nicotine patches or chewing gum aren't smoking I suppose.

LittleBear Smoking involves inhaling smoke, the combustion product of something (in this case tobacco) being burned. There is a chemical reaction caused by the act of combustion that releases some substances and changes others. Smoke itself contains a very large number of substances, scientists still don't know how many but estimates are currently at around 20,000 different things. This smoke going into the lungs causes build ups inside the body, and releases many different substances into the blood stream including a number of carcinogens.

Vaping however doesn't involve anything being burned, just heated until the liquid vaporises. The fluids are made from very well understood ingredients that are currently used in medicines or foods, and little or no chemical changes take place.

Look on it as the difference between standing right over a bonfire, and breathing in the steam from a bowl of hot water with maybe some eucalyptus in, like you do with a bunged up cold.

So no vapers do not "smoke" because they are not creating or taking in any smoke, just innocuous vapour.