not to do anythijg about dh 's 50 unit per week drinking

[badger2005]

I barely drink, but dh drinks this much. He thinks it's normal really but gets pissed office I ever raise it (about twice a year when I feel anxious) .he never seems legless, sometimes slightly drunk. I don't reallly see what I can do, especially as he doesn't want to talk about it. So I am currently just ignoring it. Do youthink that's.okay? Anyone else share his view that it's a fairly normal amount to drink? Thanks for any advice!

AgentZigZag
"Paying cash for what alcohol I drink (although DH shops for it usually) doesn't have any bearing on what I want to drink of an evening."
Erm - good for you? :/
When I was 20 I realised I was spending £70 on a night out, plus another £40 in the week on wine etc. - I hadn't noticed before because boyfriends had always paid for my drinks, and realising that's how much I was literally pissing away certainly made me think twice about how much I 'needed' the alcohol. Just because you feel that way it doesn't mean everyone will.

"He's an adult, it's not for the OP to coerce or manipulate him into doing anything (within reason)."
But it is for her to continue to 'supply' him with alcohol despite the fact she's concerned?
Not buying it for him would send out a message she's not happy that it's become a routine, and if he were going to drink in secret he'd be doing it already - if not, then he'll buy the same amount himself and continue to do the same thing, no hamr done, but he may become a little more accountable.
I suggested she 'forget' one week in order to gauge what sort of impact this has on him emotionally/physically. If it's a serious problem and he reacts badly it could indicate the beginnings of a problem.

Having seen my DP's parents and how what was initially 'middle class drinking' turned into an addiction that has resulted in one of them losing their drivers licence among other things I would not make light of something the OP seems to be concerned about.
If it was all fine she would not have posted here after all.

and with that, I'm oot.

'and with that, I'm oot.'

Out of the thread or off out somewhere nice?

I hope I haven't made light of the OP's concerns, I answered her seriously, although my answers were written before she said he had diabetes which would change things.

I've had close contact with an alcoholic and know what it's like to live with, and I feel for people who have had a shitty time/childhood because of it, but I believe that there are some things adults are able to decide about for themselves - if they're not causing a problem to someone else (and even if they do it's still up to them as to whether they do anything).

Agree with bodybooboo saying about it being a balance between doing things that make you happy and denying yourself for long term possible benefits which aren't set in stone. Sometimes I choose to ignore some of the hundreds of pieces of 'advice' given by the 'experts' (I won't go crying to anyone when I eventually peg it).

The OP and her DH both accept each other as they are, and if it's not causing her a problem why advise her to start sending him PA messages by not buying it for him?

It's insane to try to lose weight by only eating in the evenings. Those are the calories he won't lose because he's not taking any exercise afterwards. If he must miss a meal, it's supper that should go.

I agree you shouldn't buy alcohol for him. Just maybe if you say to him that you're not going to help him kill himself, something might get through to him.

It's interesting that, when you try to talk to him about this, he interprets it as wanting to tell him how shit he is. That can only come from his own guilty conscience. I suppose all you can do is to emphasise to him that it's actually about loving him and wanting him to stay around for you and the dc.

I think you really do have to take this seriously because he sounds awfully like my FIL. And he died young from smoking and alcohol related oesophageal cancer.

I'm a HCP and one of the questions I have to ask is how many units a week people drink as anything above 21 puts you at risk of osteoporosis (amongst many other things).

If your DH has an insulin pump then his diabetes has not been well controlled - you get those when more conventional methods aren't working - and frankly his diabetes never would be controllable drinking so much alcohol ( which is basically sugar ) and having such a poor diet. The weight issue is probably down to alcohol not food consumption too . To top it off the smoking is also bad if you're diabetic (affects circulation).

He is probably not telling his consultant the truth (so many people don't), but probably knows he's drinking too much hence the defensiveness. He will also know the potential harm he is doing to himself, but unless he's prepared to alter his drinking there's really nothing you can do. Yeah you could stop buying it but he'd only get his own anyway. I see so many people who have the attitude of "well I'm alright it doesn't affect me" when the tests I do tell a different story. It's pretty sad really.

"It's insane to try to lose weight by only eating in the evenings. Those are the calories he won't lose because he's not taking any exercise afterwards."

That's an old wives tale

I wholeheartedly agree with Ipswichwitch

I had not read your DH was an insulin dependent diabetic, and a smoker. That really ramps up the risk- he is putting himself at serious risk of long-term problems- circulatory (so think neuropathies, diabetic foot ulcers, increased risk of necrosis and amputation); he is also increasing his chances of liver, kidney and heart disease and of stroke.

I will never forget the patients I treated as a junior doctor working on the GI ward. Of those who were suffering from alcohol related problems, some of these patients had been drinking the same or less than your DH. Some for many years, some for only a few. Alcohol related liver disease is no walk in the park- I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

I'll also never forget one patient (call him Mr A), a man in his 60's who was admitted with "acute confusion" and some odd neurological symptoms. It turned out he was a "bit of a drinker" who drank anywhere between 50-80 units when he was off-shore (but none for weeks at a time when at work). He had developed Wernicke's encephalopathy which, despite treatment, developed into Korsakoff's dementia. This was solely due to excessive drinking over a long time. He had profound, irreversible, cognitive deficit and was totally disorientated in time and place (e.g. thought he was a PoW or an assassin at times). He ended up in a locked ward, as he was a danger to himself and potentially others (other psychiatric disorders were ruled out). Physically, his drinking left few scars though. My point is, it's not always the liver that is the worst affected organ, or the one affected first.

Of course, he (and you, I suppose, OP) could gamble that he'll be one of the lucky ones who aren't seriously affected, or who will take years of excess alcohol consumption to be seriously affected. It's up to him what he does, it's up to you whether you seek to alter his behaviour.

Thank you for the replies. It is very useful to get other people's views on this. I didn't think his diabetes control was bad before the pump - but I have never been to an appointment so can't be sure. I do know that the volume of insulting his body needs is unusually high, but no idea why.

Maybe what would help us is a sort of risk assessment, taking everything into account. He has studied statistics so I guess he would get a lot out of this. You know, probability of different outcomes if he continues as he is, probabilities if he changes in various ways. Maybe I could find a doctor or researcher who would do this. I reckon that if the risk was big and close - like he really might not get to see our kids grow up - he might rethink. Our conversations have never got further than me trotting up units and comparing to government recommendations. This is all I really know about it (though have learnt more from the thread). Then of course we agree that units are more than recommended, but then we also both don't do recommended strength training every week or always get enough sleep etc. The problem is that he doesn't see (or seems like he doesn't) that the drinking is more serious than breaking other health guidelines.The smoking he would agree is serious, but doesn't want to talk about that either.

His body needs unusually high vol of insulin, not insulting!

Could how he's so defensive about it be down to the fact that because of the possibility of it being a huge problem because of his health, it's too big for him to think about, so he just doesn't?

When you're finding something difficult to deal with it can be easier to pretend everything's OK, maybe he resents the idea that he's old now he can't drink/smoke to his heart's content any more like he did as a youngster, and he's not ready for the wake up call/isn't able to come to terms with that yet?

On the contrary, Bunbaker, current thinking on dieting is that the idea that it's a myth that it's a bad idea to eat late at night is itself looking dubious.

I don't think the timing of his evening meal is he problem here tbh.

Does he drink openly or is the wine tucked away so the kids don't see. Better if it's in the open, if he tries to hide it you can ask why (presumably he is a bit ashamed or else thinks he sets a bad example or something). If it's all ok then it should be in the open.

Diabetes can result in blindness, gangrene, v serious complaints. He should be taking greater care, who will care for him if he becomes ill (before you would expect someone's health to fail, eg 60s not 80s)?

There is the problem - he knows how serious smoking is but refuses to talk about it. Therefore, I suspect you could go in armed with all the drinking statistics you could ever find and he'd still not want to talk about it. I'm sure he knows how serious it all is , what his risks are , what he's likely doing to himself but his refusal to talk about it means he can bury his head in the sand and pretend none of it will ever happen to him. Until he's prepared to admit its a problem there ain't a damn thing you can do. He's already gambling with his health and knowing the numbers involved won't (I think) get him to change his ways. He has to want to.

Even though I know the numbers involved ipswich, it's up to me as an adult to decide whether I want to gamble with my own life (with the vices of my choice).

I wouldn't' take kindly to anyone thinking they could manipulate me into doing what they think is best for me, I'm not an idiot, I can weigh it up and choose for myself.

Anyone who did try to force me into obeying I would suspect of getting off on fulfilling their need to control their environment.

(although that might be a bit off topic and not apply to the OP)

That's absolutely right Agent. I probably didn't make my point very well that the op can't get him to change - he has to want to do it for himself. He's made his choice an refuses to discuss it (as is his right).

He is most likely well aware of the facts and as an adult makes his own decision. I was responding to the op's suggestion that she present the statistics to him in an effort to make him rethink the situation.

I certainly would never attempt to control or manipulate someone's behaviour and think the op won't get very far if she tries either. Unfortunately I see it all too often from the other side where people take it too far and it's destroying them.

My FIL drinks a similar amount, and never seems drunk as he is used to it, MIL jokes that he's pickled (rolls eyes) however it's a dangerous amount and the NHS would agree. Definitely too late for someone in his 70's but your OH needs to get help.

Depending on who we listen to hear it seems the OP has the option of enabling his alcohol dependency or be accused of being manipulative and controlling.
Rock and a hard place.
YANBU though Badger I think you are right to be concerned and sometimes it's worth a full and frank discussion. I would be tempted to stop buying the box of wine and maybe just buy wine at the weekend or if and when you want to have a drink but this is likely to cause a confrontation. You might want to have a think about a likely conversation.
You can't make him address his drinking. As you know.Maybe al anon might have some ideas?

Surely it's disastrous for a diabetic to eat nothing all day till supper time?! Quite apart from the issues with alcohol consumption.

OP

Does he drink and drive?

Is it possible he's over the limit the morning after?

This is a potential problem for other people

Iamsoannoyed, it's type 1 diabetes - no one says insulin dependent diabetes any more. People may have an insulin pump for a number of reasons; clearly we don't know the specifics here. The problems are multiple in terms of his lifestyle choices which will increase his risk of the many long-term vascular complications, and shorten his life expectancy. Unfortunately humans are not rational and tend to ignore consequences, which is why so many people live unhealthy lives.

He commutes by train and at weekends and holidays he is up late so I think not drinking while alcohol in his system.

The not eating till evening I don't see as a massive issue though I may be wrong. Before pump he did not eat to a regime but tested and adjusted insulin accordingly. I think this was recommended practise - Daphne or something?

When I imagine presenting his with the statistics, I reckon he would question the source ... which maybe is what people do when they don't want to know. If he saw this thread I think he'd think I was getting a bit crazy to be going on about it so much! Though he would be kind about it... hes the sort of person who would be kind to you if you were getting in a tizwoz about something.

Oh yes to answer a question - he doesn't hide drinking from children. It doesn't look bad (he's just a person enjoying a glass of wine of an evening) ...its only when you add it all up that you realise it wasn't just one glass that he was having of an evening!)

"Even though I know the numbers involved ipswich, it's up to me as an adult to decide whether I want to gamble with my own life (with the vices of my choice)."

I agree, but that is also a selfish view if that impacts on other people, especially dependents.

You could present him with some very compelling statistics but he has already told you what he thinks, "He doesn't want to change".

Would he object if you accompanied him to his next Dr's appointment? Diabetes + excessive drinking + skipping meals + smoking = at best, a host of health complications or at worst a shortend life expectancy. I think if you were to tell his consultant what you have told us they would be appaled. If he avoids the conversation with you then he's definitely not being honest with his Dr.

Your H is in major denial about his health in general and although you can't make him change, I wouldn't avoid the truth about his poor health because it does effect you too.

Get life insurance for him and let him get on with it. You can't make someone see something they don't want to see.

I agree with Isetan. If you can't go along to his next diabetic clinic appointment send in a letter to go on file. Short to the point,

"I don't think DH is being honest with you in regards to A. units alcohol consumed. B. amount smoking. C. exercise etc...

It's not about statistics - they lie can be manipulated. Argue the toss over Pearson v Chi Square! It's about the quality of his life, not a long life filled with pain, ulcers, amputations, wheezing.