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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

friend may go to prison for benefit fraud. AIBU to think its unfair her partner will get off scot free?

438 replies

balenciaga · 27/02/2014 11:08

there is a back story here, which i will try and keep brief. my good friend has been with a guy on and off for 4 years, he was amazing at first and promised the earth as they do, then he became very abusive (mentally, physically and financially) and she was frightened of him. He even left her twice for 2 different women but she took him back. However, 2 months ago she finally left him (thank god) and moved back home to her mums and is starting again, looking for a house, a job etc.

she has 4 dcs and turns out she was claiming as a single parent the whole time he was with her :( I am not making excuses for her but she was scared to stop claiming as he would not contribute financially and she was scared of not being able to pay bills, eat etc. Also, he pressured her into keeping claiming (which I can WELL believe) and assured her it would be fine, no one would know etc Hmm - basically so he could carry on spending his wages like water living rent free and doing whatever the fuck he pleased.

she only told me a few weeks ago what had happened. while she was still with her ex, she had been called in for an interview with the fraud team at DWP as they had suspicions and she confessed it all to them. I couldn't believe she had done it TBH but as much as I absolutely do not condone what she's done I can kind of understand her reasons, its not black and white, yes I did think why the hell did you not leave him earlier etc but its not that easy is it :(

her court date was yesterday. because of the length of time she kept the fraud up for and the amount of money involved (over 33k and that's just HB and income support - ie before tax credits even Shock ) the judge pretty much decided as soon as she went in that the case would go straight to Crown. Her solicitor has warned her that a prison sentence is a real possibility :(

AIBU to think this could be quite a common reason for women committing benefit fraud? and that the law seriously needs looking at and these cocklodging bastards of an ex should also be made accountable?? it takes two ffs !!

OP posts:
Mintyy · 27/02/2014 18:13

Unfortunately lots of people on this thread seem unable to imagine Rommell!

Mintyy · 27/02/2014 18:14

Why would I want to do that Flogging?

Anonymai · 27/02/2014 18:14

And rommell if he comes and goes and comes and goes, she could have decided to keep him away for good. Steady benefits, no fraud.

Floggingmolly · 27/02/2014 18:16

Which word didn't you understand, Mintyy?

wannabestressfree · 27/02/2014 18:17

Hear hear Rommell

There is another aprenting site on Facebook and its woeful the amount of posts there are asking ' I want my boyfriend to move in and they are saying it will take eight/twelve weeks for benefits/tax credits to be sorted. How will we live'?

I am not excusing benefit fraud but I can see how it happens. Being desperate for money there aren't savings etc. Electricity and gas on key. You need money in your hand. I have done it. Its was without a doubt the worst time of my life.

Rommell · 27/02/2014 18:18

But the thing is, WorryLiberty, when do you sign off? After he's stayed the first night? After he's bought her kids some toys/books/games? After he's given her £20 to put on the gas meter? If it's on and off like the OP says it was, when can she know she can rely on him financially? Promises are all very well, but promises don't put food on the table or pay the rent. Maybe she thought he'd start to contribute, and she could sign off then. But she'd have been mad to sign off without him actually paying half the rent, which sounds like it never happened.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2014 18:18

Is she not capable of knowing and understanding the law? Is she not capable of understanding that she might go to prison if she gets caught? FOR FOUR YEARS.

I might have more sympathy and accept the idea that he is getting off scot free if it didn't happen over such a long period. I might have more sympathy if she didn't keep taking him back after the first couple of times he left.

Unfortunately at some point you have to say, why didn't she start taking responsibility? Why did she behave in a way that other women - even in abusive relationships - don't?

You could argue that the system which means you have to stop and start claiming is giving you a pretty big clue that this man is not reliable and doesn't have your financial interests of you and your kids at heart.

You can not pass blame to him if this is on going for so long and she ignores the legalities of her actions for so long.

Would we have the same sympathy with a woman who dealt drugs to support her family? Or committed burglary to support her family? Because the partner made her do it. For four years.

The fact is, she did it, because she ultimately thought the risk was worth it and she could get away with it and that was a better option than not allowing the man back into her house.

Mintyy · 27/02/2014 18:19

Flogging
What?

Anonymai · 27/02/2014 18:19

Is it too much to expect two adults to sit down and talk about finances before they move in together? And if there's no money, there's no moving in?

Mignonette · 27/02/2014 18:20

Caruthers

It does NOT cheapen people w/ real MH problems because if she doesn't have a MH problem, she doesn't have a MH problem.

The system is so fucked and devoid of resources that I can assure you we don't go around falsely diagnosing people with MI when they do not have it.

And people who don't understand how personality issues and MH issues can cause people to make poor or ill advised decisions, well.....

You cannot argue with stupid.

handcream · 27/02/2014 18:20

The thing is - we have a choice to stay or leave a partner. She chose to stay again and again. Then she chose to carry on pretending that she was a single parent. She has now been found guility of fraud. Which part of this is not fair??

I am really fed up of people blaming other people for things they do and claiming they didnt have an choice.

What should happen to her? Perhaps you can pay her benefit fraud as opposed to the rest of us!

lottieandmia · 27/02/2014 18:21

I completely agree with the first part of Woo Woo Owl's post where she says that a single parent with children cannot do anything that will threaten their financial security and that you should wait until the children are grown.

OTOH while I think benefit fraud is obviously wrong and inexcusable, I always wonder why people don't get more up in arms about politicians who milk their expenses. Like the aristocrat who thinks the tax payer should pay for his Italian lessons. As a PP said, two wrongs don't make a right. But why is it ok for politicians to steal money? Because some of them clearly have and do,

Mignonette · 27/02/2014 18:22

Thank goodness for Rommells insider view.

fideline · 27/02/2014 18:22

"The non resident fathers are free to set up home with their nice new girlfriends and get away with not paying to support the children."

YY

Unpaid chuld support is absolutely the other half of the problem. Child support should be a stable form of income to the child's household. Even when everything else is in flux.

I never understand why child support cannot be collected by tax code.

candycain · 27/02/2014 18:22

I didn't move in with DH until we were married, because I wanted the legal security. If he moved in, or even stayed over sometimes, it would have meant my benefits had to end, and I would have been financially dependent on him. At least once we were married there was some agreement of commitment, and I could have some protection through divorce. Moving in a partner is very risky when you're a single parent and dependent on benefits, you have to know the person well and be secure that they're happy to share their earnings as household income. I think it does happen far too quickly in a lot of cases.

Mintyy · 27/02/2014 18:23

"Which part of that is not fair?"

The part that says she gets all the blame and may go to prison, and he is not prosecuted. If he lived there he got the benefit of some of those benefits! OBVIOUSLY.

ilikebigbutts · 27/02/2014 18:24

Thanks for that Rommell. Your post has made the most sense to me on here, especially since you have worked in the area of benefit fraud.

Yes what she did was illegal, she should have told the arsehole to get to fuck the first time he was abusive, she should have thought of the consequences for her children if she was found out.....But I think you'd have to pretty cold not to have any sympathy for this woman. It doesn't sound as though she was splashing the cash on nights out and new handbags.

caruthers · 27/02/2014 18:25

This reply has been deleted

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Mignonette · 27/02/2014 18:25

Yes,when the person with insider knowledge of benefit fraud can find some empathy, it makes those of you who cannot look really really ugly.

Rommell · 27/02/2014 18:25

^I might have more sympathy and accept the idea that he is getting off scot free if it didn't happen over such a long period.^

Thing is, people get scared. They slip into it, like I say, and then the deception gets so big that if they do own to a change in circumstances, they worry that they'll get found out. So they have to keep on going. I saw it loads of times - that old saw about one lie leading to another is very true in these types of cases. Also, it sounds like things were never stable enough for her to be able to rely on him rather than on benefits. And her kids have to eat somehow.

handcream · 27/02/2014 18:25

Mintyy - well she was the one who carried on lying and pretending that she was a single parent. She clearly knew what she was doing for 4 years...

Mintyy · 27/02/2014 18:26

And so did he ...

Anonymai · 27/02/2014 18:26

And signed the declarations.

Floggingmolly · 27/02/2014 18:26

He was happy to move in. He could have said no, we can't afford it if you're going to lose your benefits. He could have taken some responsibility for the situation
So could she, Mintyy. Sorry if I used too many big words; you appear to be awfully confused.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 27/02/2014 18:26

Ok, so she would have been mad to sign off without knowing his commitment to supporting her and her children. It begs the question then, why let him move in? Not just once but multiple times...

If she really had been thinking of her childrens' welfare, he would not have been staying at her home at all. That might have focused his mind on whether he really wanted to be with her and her family as a unit.

I feel sad that this lady is going to face the wrath of the court when there are more serious things going on but benefit fraud is serious and people are reporting it now. People should be aware of that and none moreso than single mothers who may or may not be more vulnerable to attention from cocklodgers who will let them face the music and not look back.

There have been very many threads lately where the OP has been quick to rush a man into her home, irrespective of the commonsense of doing so or even against the wishes of her children. That is terribly sad and there's no excuse for it.

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