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AIBU?

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Original poster

friend may go to prison for benefit fraud. AIBU to think its unfair her partner will get off scot free?

438 replies

balenciaga · 27/02/2014 11:08

there is a back story here, which i will try and keep brief. my good friend has been with a guy on and off for 4 years, he was amazing at first and promised the earth as they do, then he became very abusive (mentally, physically and financially) and she was frightened of him. He even left her twice for 2 different women but she took him back. However, 2 months ago she finally left him (thank god) and moved back home to her mums and is starting again, looking for a house, a job etc.

she has 4 dcs and turns out she was claiming as a single parent the whole time he was with her :( I am not making excuses for her but she was scared to stop claiming as he would not contribute financially and she was scared of not being able to pay bills, eat etc. Also, he pressured her into keeping claiming (which I can WELL believe) and assured her it would be fine, no one would know etc Hmm - basically so he could carry on spending his wages like water living rent free and doing whatever the fuck he pleased.

she only told me a few weeks ago what had happened. while she was still with her ex, she had been called in for an interview with the fraud team at DWP as they had suspicions and she confessed it all to them. I couldn't believe she had done it TBH but as much as I absolutely do not condone what she's done I can kind of understand her reasons, its not black and white, yes I did think why the hell did you not leave him earlier etc but its not that easy is it :(

her court date was yesterday. because of the length of time she kept the fraud up for and the amount of money involved (over 33k and that's just HB and income support - ie before tax credits even Shock ) the judge pretty much decided as soon as she went in that the case would go straight to Crown. Her solicitor has warned her that a prison sentence is a real possibility :(

AIBU to think this could be quite a common reason for women committing benefit fraud? and that the law seriously needs looking at and these cocklodging bastards of an ex should also be made accountable?? it takes two ffs !!

OP posts:
JammyPodger · 27/02/2014 11:58

Can't go into detail but I know of someone it happened to. The partner was not the one claiming so didn't go down for it. I can say the figure was a bit higher than your friends and the sentence was several months.

I've also read of people who don't go to prison and have to pay the money back.

WorraLiberty · 27/02/2014 11:59

I suspect she didn't confess...they probably put a huge pile of evidence on the desk in front of her.

When my ex BIL was done for benefit fraud, it turned out they'd been compiling evidence for 18 months before they called him in.

whois · 27/02/2014 12:00

She should have done the decent thing and out her children first. I have little sympathy for women who put their own happiness and desire to have a 'man' above their children's welfare.

Swanbridge · 27/02/2014 12:05

She did it - so she did the right thing to admit to it. Benefit fraud is something that by its very nature has a lot of written evidence, hard to claim she didn't do it. She'll automatically get credit when it comes to sentencing if she's confessed.

Onesleeptillwembley · 27/02/2014 12:08

She lied. She signed the forms. Her fault. End of.

Fontofnowt · 27/02/2014 12:10

In these days of blended families maybe she should be entitled to not rely on this man financially at the start of relationships.
Maybe a tiered rate or better absent parent contributions.
Four years is more than long enough in normal circumstances but abusive ones are difficult to judge.
I hope she doesn't do custodial I really can't see how that would help.

Goblinchild · 27/02/2014 12:11

Yet again, adults cock up and the children are the real victims.

givemeaclue · 27/02/2014 12:12

What did she spend the £33k on?

BumpyGrindy · 27/02/2014 12:13

I cannot BELIEVE the tone of some of these posts! Have you people no idea what it's like for a woman who is being abused physically and mentally??? Potato your comment "She will think twice before allowing someone else to do this to her" is victim blaming in the extreme and sickening too.

victims of domestic violence have quite often come from homes where that was the norm and they don't think the same as you might...or I might...they don't have the same resources mentally. You're all shockingly hard.

DorianReprise · 27/02/2014 12:20

Is she possessed of human adult faculties of reason that make her responsible for her actions, or is she a witless, hapless victim because a man told her what to do?

BumpyGrindy · 27/02/2014 12:26

Dorian she is a victim of abuse! Mental and physical. That removes people's ability to make sensible choices...or are you SO secure and safe that this is beyond your ken?

ReadyToPopAndFresh · 27/02/2014 12:27

The op's question is isn't it shit that men aren't going down as well?

And yes, it is. If I threaten someone with bodily harm normally I would suffer the consequences for it.

Why is it "partners" don't? If she felt physically threatened and financially abused so that she had to lie in order to not be beaten or financially abused..

Why isn't he also in trouble? Why do men get so spectacularly let off the hook?

CinnabarRed · 27/02/2014 12:27

I have much sympathy for any person - male or female - in a DV relationship.

But I think it would be an incredibly dangerous precedent if the friends and family of those who commit crimes became punishable for the behaviour of the criminal.

Your friend signed the claim forms, and therefore she committed the crime.

I do think that a prison sentence wouldn't be in the public interest in this case.

Nicknacky · 27/02/2014 12:28

I think it's quite insulting to victims of domestic abuse to say they are so incapable of making sensible decisions and knowing right from wrong.

OnIlkleyMoorBahTwat · 27/02/2014 12:28

Givemeaclue I suspect it was spent on 4 years of rent/council tax/food/electric/tv licence/clothes and shoes etc etc. The OP's friend probably has not lived the life of riley and probably has little or no money to her name currently.

Has the OP said whether or not the 'partner' is the children's father?

Obviously she has done wrong, but she has been been put in a very difficult position and illustrates the difficulties that the 'system' throws up.

Eg. A single parent of 4 children will receive a reasonably substantial amount of income support/tax credits etc. Perhaps she is not receiving maintenance from the children's father(s).

She meets a new partner who wants to move in. If he does, she will lose a lot of benefits and the new partner is expected to support someone else's children.

In a lot of cases he either won't or can't, or perhaps she isn't sure if the relationship is 'permanent', or a permanent relationship 'just happens'. When does staying over a couple of nights a week turn into a permanent relationship where the man is a 'stepdad'. I bet in a lot of cases, it is difficult to pin down exactly when this happens, especially if its an on/off relationship.

So if the partner is not the children's father, the actual father is also to blame for not adequately supporting his children. So OP, I know your friend signed the form, but morally at least, there is also one or more men that need to share the blame in this case.

CalamitouslyWrong · 27/02/2014 12:29

If her cocklodger wasn't contributing anything, I'd imagine that she spent the £33k on all the stuff she would have done if he hadn't existed. In fact, she'd probably have had more money on her own because she wouldn't have been buying food for him etc.

I think the saddest thing about the story is that she felt she needed to live with someone who wasn't contributing and was abusive. She would have been so much better of on her own.

It doesn't make it 'right' to commit benefit fraud, but I can't really find it in me to hoik up my judgey pants over what's happened. It's not like the OP's friend is avoiding the consequences of it all.

Anonymai · 27/02/2014 12:29

I suppose it's because she can't prove a man made her do it. If that was a way out of trouble, every single mum who is caught lying while in a relationship would do it.

CinnabarRed · 27/02/2014 12:29

Why isn't he also in trouble? Why do men get so spectacularly let off the hook?

Assuming that the OP is factually correct then he is guilty of a different crime, and should be charged (an d hopefully convicted) for that crime.

Nicknacky · 27/02/2014 12:31

Cinnabar, I missed it but what crime is he guilty of?

CinnabarRed · 27/02/2014 12:32

The OP said he was physically abusive to the friend.

CinnabarRed · 27/02/2014 12:32

He may also have been guilty of harassment, etc for the emotional abuse.

CalamitouslyWrong · 27/02/2014 12:33

Physical abuse is a crime, if nothing else.

Nicknacky · 27/02/2014 12:33

Ah sorry, I read it again and again and missed it! I see it now.

SaucyJack · 27/02/2014 12:33

She didn't have to lie Ready. She could have- and should have- told him to leave. Four years is plenty of time for anybody to get their heads and their shit together, especially as he apparently moved out a couple of times anyway.

The kids are the real victims here.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2014 12:36

Lots of women are in situations where there is DV. They struggle, but they ultimately don't commit benefit fraud.

I suspect that the majority of people who commit benefit fraud, have a hardship tale too. To justify what they are doing to themselves as much as anyone else. To say that they "had no other choice".

But the hard cold plain truth, is that they do. They choose this as the solution to their problems rather than other options.

The trouble is, as much sympathy as you can have for this woman, she still made a decision that other women in a similar position choose not to do. Yes she might need help, but you can not allow her to use this as justification for what she did, otherwise it just ends up being used as a legitimate avenue for other women to pursue as a way to solve the hardships of their situation.

It remains 'the wrong choice' no matter what your circumstances, I'm afraid.

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