friend may go to prison for benefit fraud. AIBU to think its unfair her partner will get off scot free?

[balenciaga]

there is a back story here, which i will try and keep brief. my good friend has been with a guy on and off for 4 years, he was amazing at first and promised the earth as they do, then he became very abusive (mentally, physically and financially) and she was frightened of him. He even left her twice for 2 different women but she took him back. However, 2 months ago she finally left him (thank god) and moved back home to her mums and is starting again, looking for a house, a job etc.

she has 4 dcs and turns out she was claiming as a single parent the whole time he was with her :( I am not making excuses for her but she was scared to stop claiming as he would not contribute financially and she was scared of not being able to pay bills, eat etc. Also, he pressured her into keeping claiming (which I can WELL believe) and assured her it would be fine, no one would know etc - basically so he could carry on spending his wages like water living rent free and doing whatever the fuck he pleased.

she only told me a few weeks ago what had happened. while she was still with her ex, she had been called in for an interview with the fraud team at DWP as they had suspicions and she confessed it all to them. I couldn't believe she had done it TBH but as much as I absolutely do not condone what she's done I can kind of understand her reasons, its not black and white, yes I did think why the hell did you not leave him earlier etc but its not that easy is it :(

her court date was yesterday. because of the length of time she kept the fraud up for and the amount of money involved (over 33k and that's just HB and income support - ie before tax credits even ) the judge pretty much decided as soon as she went in that the case would go straight to Crown. Her solicitor has warned her that a prison sentence is a real possibility :(

AIBU to think this could be quite a common reason for women committing benefit fraud? and that the law seriously needs looking at and these cocklodging bastards of an ex should also be made accountable?? it takes two ffs !!

MAKE SURE the absent parent pays for their children. After all, if they were still together they would be paying. It is far, FAR too easy for one to walk away without a backward glance and too easy to evade maintenance payments

I think we can all agree to that.

I don't understand why someone would move a man in if it meant they would struggle financially.

And what Font said (took so long to type that!)

But no-one should be moving a "new partner" in when they have kids. So no "new" partner is going to be taking responsibility for kids they barely know, they are paying appropriate costs for their family/household.

This ^^ absolutely.

Also, I know jobs are very hard to come by but if she was (understandably) worried about financial independence, I would have expected her to find one within a 4 year period.

But maybe I'm being unreasonable to wonder if she even tried?

I feel extremely sorry for your friend, op, and I hope she doesn't go to prison.

As for your friend, CatTheTheif, I am sure a journalist from a liberal paper like the Independent or the Guardian might be interested in her story? It is truly shocking, almost Dickensian .

I left a DV relationship with my dc and I'm a bit offended by the idea that being a victim of DV would affect a person's judgement so much that they end up committing fraud and returning to the same relationship. Abuse or not, adults have the capacity to make decisions and are held responsible for those decisions. I would not have dreamed of committing fraud and although my ex was financially abusive (as well as in other ways) I recognised that this was a reason to leave for good, not keep going back for years. It's no environment to bring up a child.

I have, happily, found a new partner, after a decade of being a single parent. It's always been the case that once a partner moves into a single parent household, benefits have to be claimed jointly and so if the partner has a wage then all means-tested benefits are affected. Housing benefit, income support, council tax and tax credits. I don't think this is unfair, men need to take on women with all their existing children as a package and my DH didn't hesitate when he realised he would be supporting all of us. That is just what a decent man does.

I think that where things go wrong it is when the women rush to find a new partner and settle for someone who isn't really committed but just wants the convenience of living in the household and he often ends up staying there simply because it's easier than finding childcare when they want to spend time together. The pp who said that certain men often seek out single mums because they are desperate or grateful is spot on - I have seen it happen many times. I made a horrible mistake with exP but after I got out I knew I deserved better and stayed single for years rather than put up with crap. It would be better of more women take time to assess future partners, DH and I were in a relationship without cohabiting for six years before moving in. By that time I could feel secure that he would do the right thing for me and my dcs.

I do think that in this case though, the OP's friend should get a suspended sentence rather than being jailed. It's no good for the children who might have to go into care or be disrupted from their normal home if they stay with relatives, or for the state to have to pay for the cost of prison.

I think a journalist from the independent was on the benefit debate. Was it oliver jones or Something like that. I bet he would be really interested.

I have a friend doing this.

She is renting a house from a relative of the cocklodger - tenancy & benefits are all in her name.

He claims to live with his mum in a different property. His mum then collects the rent for the property friend/cocklodger actually live in from my friend, as the family member who actually owns it is in jail.

Friend insists that as cocklodger doesn't 'technically' live with her & her dc (& to be fair to him, he does disappear for days on end quite regularly ), she isn't doing anything illegal.

I'd send her a link to this thread, but cocklodger's banned her from using the internet... .

Owen Jones, author of 'Chavs' (fabulous book)

owenjones.org/

I don't understand why someone would move a man in if it meant they would struggle financially.

One of the sad realities of the contemporary world is that quite a lot of people believe that they are somehow lesser if they don't have a partner/husband. Being single is so often seen as something to be avoided or minimised. This means that a lot of women will put up with anything just to have a 'partner', even where they'd be better off (financially, emotionally, physically, and so on) on their own.

That's so sad, calamitously. It's depressing that people think like this :/ probably through no fault of their own depending on how they've been brought up.

just to re iterate, I absolutely agree that my friend should be punished and pay the money back, I also agree that lots of people who commit these types of crimes often have an excuse / reason

but I just think it is so damn unfair that the man in these situations just gets to walk away from it all scot free :(

just wanted to say as well, my friend was working over the 4 years but only part time and low wage so she was more or less on full benefits. none of the dcs are his, and - surprise surprise - the dcs actual dad fucked off a long time ago and she gets a tiny amount of maintenance that the csa (or whatever they are these days) make him pay from his benefits.

and also some posters asked what she spent the money on, well, she spent it on rent, food, fuel and clothes for her dcs. She never lived a flashy life or ever really had anything. So she was in no way living it up.

but thanks all for all the responses, really interesting reading and some very sad and shocking stories

YANBU. It isn't fair - the system stinks.

They walk away because they didn't commit that particular crime.

Lets not beat about the bush here.

Some girls with little education and little prospect of a well paid job deliberately choose at age 16 to leave school and know full well you can get pregnant and get priority on housing waiting lists, get a flat allocated to you and go on benefits.

That is basically the content of a conversation I overheard between two girls on a bus, one advising the other in detail how she did it.

The boys also know they will not get the same benefit so the trick is to find a girl who has already got a flat allocated and go and 'form a relationship' so you can live in her flat and there is no downside as it is her benefits that get cut not yours. You live for free and keep your benefits as spending money.

It really is that callous and calculated.

I will see if I can get my friend to go to the press. Tbh I doubt she will. She is mortified, and living some way from friends and family as she is too ashamed to come back to the village she grew up in.

She is unlikely to find employment (she previously worked in child care) and unsuprisingly is suffering with depression. Up until last year she ran a toddler group, and a youth club, both voluntarily, but is now a shadow of her previously kind and friendly self.

She has no money or means to visit her 5 & 7 year old dc 400 miles away obviously.

So very sad, and as a pp said, almost Dickensian.

Has your friend been to the police about his abuse of her? The DWP obviously have no reason to report a crime, but certain types of abuse are crimes. Sadly her being prosecute for benefit fraud will make her a less credible witness though.

I wouldn't necessarily encourage anyone to go to the press, especially not with an 'I committed benefit fraud story'. It is unlikely to improve their situation.

You are probably right Calamity.

She was too bloody terrified of him to stop claiming though, so seems very unfair that he's come out on top and she's lost everything, with little hope of life getting much better.

The press? She will be ripped apart. And if she chooses to complain via the press for being penalised for breaking the law then frankly she deserves no sympathy for bringing more on her own head.

'Often the abusers have been instrumental in bringing about the circumstances they are threatening to report. This is so common, it is almost routine.

I think another way of asking OP's question is;

"Do abusive men use the benefit system as another weapon against their victims?"'

Completely agree with this post. I understand it is also possible in certain circumstances for a benefit claim to be joint. Which means that it is possible for an abusive man to put pressure on a partner to embark on a joint claim and once in it's like a lobster pot. No way out. She doesn't earn enough (because of the terms of the claim) to leave. If she gets a better job she can't save the money because their income has become entirely linked and if she's honest he will know immediately because his benefits fall. In any case he can hold that over her - 'you can't go for that job because I'll lose out and it isn't worth it is it?' If she conceals higher earnings or more work then she's committing fraud. There is something in the terms of the benefit system at present that is a gift to abusive men and I suspect it would be very interesting indeed to talk in depth to women convicted of benefit fraud about the choices and circumstances that led them there.

If none of these children belong to the man that you are trying to blame, then you are being unreasonable.

You saying that none of these children were his after five pages has got to be one of the biggest drip feeds ever!

Where has he committed a crime? He might be a twat, but if he hasn't done anything illegal, then why shouldn't he get away scot free? It's not him that had four children he couldn't afford, it's not him that refused to pay for the children he created, and it's not him that claimed benefits fraudulently.

It's not a crime to not want to pay for four children that aren't yours, nor is it a crime to spend some time living in their home if their actual parent has facilitated that.

Your friend is entirely to blame.

It can be much more expensive for a man to move in with a single mum who has 3 or 4 DC than it would be for him to remain single.
For example, in the case of a single mum with 3 DC who doesn't work, she is probably in receipt of full housing benefit (£100 per week),council tax support (£25 per week), income support (£71.70 per week) and child tax credit (£60 per week per child).
This alone amounts to £376.70 per week, which if new partner were to earn enough, would all be stopped.

It is a lot to ask a new partner.

Given she claimed from the start when all was rosy, i doubt she will convince them he forced her to do it.

The children will suffer for their mothers actions if she does get the punishment of prison for fraud. She is an adult and can make her own choices and put her own needs over theirs. She didnt have to stay with him or keep taking him back.

If she was worried about paying the bills she could have worked, jobs may be more thin on the ground but theres little chance not one was available in four years. Plus presumably the father/fathers of the children were paying maintainence.

Benefit fraud is theft, so many often make excuses for it but its still stealing and a crime. The penalities are well known and very lenient really.

Moving a working partner in when someone is claiming benefits makes them so vulnerable. The partner claiming benefits is under legal obligation to give them up but the resident partner is under no legal obligation to financially support them.

When I fell pregnant unexpectedly after six months or so and moved into my partner's house I obviously went on maternity leave and had a vastly reduced income. He earned a lot more than me so I wasn't entitled to any help and we didn't have joint accounts. I had to ask him to put money in my account to cover bills several times and it was pretty grim

He is now DH and money is joint etc after I spelt out to him how awful it made me feel but he wasn't under any obligation to do that. Of course, I could have left if he refused to but in an abusive relationship it isn't always that easy. There doesn't seem to be any protection and I imagine it is even worse if the partner you are moving in with isn't the parent of your children.