To ask vegans what's wrong with free range eggs?

[AndyWarholsBanana]

This isn't a TAAT but the raw vegan thread did make me think about the morals of the dairy industry and I can kind of see where vegans are coming from re cows' milk. And obviously battery farming is vile but I can't see how eating eggs from properly free range chickens is cruel. Am I missing something?

Thanks for the info and the book recommendation. Another issue I have is how expensive meat is (I have a family member who works at a supermarket and picks up the reduced-price meat for us, so we get it double discounted but it's still expensive!) so cutting out meat would hopefully save some money too.

Genius, no, I know that - that's what I'm saying.

They don't co exist happily and safely, but I am open and interested in hearing alternatives should there be any presented, because I can't think of any and I hate the destruction of cockerels tbh.

Cake , thanks, yes you are right.

I have been keeping hens in the manner you describe for the best part of 15 years.I agree that the best scenario possible is to keep as few chooks as possible in as large an area as possible.

Our hens are very poor layers tbh and of unknown age, but they are welcome, laying or not.

We had our present small brood to give them a happy home rather than to benefit from the eggs.

Not much of a comment but I believe that free range doesn't mean much. Even things like rspca freedom foods I understand don't mean the chicken has completely free life pecking around outside etc.

There is another term I believe you need to look fir bit I forget what it is... Barn raised perhaps?

Barn is one step down from free-range. Means hens weren't caged hens, but they didn't have access to outside, either.

I'm not explaining myself very well.

I'd love it to be different, but I cannot get away from the fact that cockerels will not live together.

Regardless of whether we eat chickens or eggs or not, cockerels will die.Whether it's by the natural order of things or by our hand.

The manner in which the male chicks are disposed is unacceptable, and a direct result of putting money above animal welfare.

All I am saying is that if the cockerels aren't eaten or killed, what is the answer to what to do with them, because I don't know.

Anyone?

In an idealistic extreme vegan world basically any species that couldn't survive without human intervention would gradually die out, chickens and farm animals being primary candidates. I believe the veganistic view to be that of caring for the existing animals until the end of their natural days and then in effect not breeding anymore.

Lots of vegans actually don't agree with animal conversation for the same reason - ie humans interfering with animals and the natural order of things, that is if we didn't have zoos and breeding programmes etc then a lot of animals would slowly become extinct as they cannot survive in a modern world and perhaps that is what is intended to happen according to nature rather than man using his power to intervene.

Read the "vegan freaks" book. I will try and find a link in a min. It's about extreme veganism .. contrary to the title it is a very balanced pro vegan view point. Really interesting.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1604860154/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1392833304&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165

I see the argument Fairylea.

It's a bit of a 'what if' scenario though.

Part of me thinks they would die out, or the numbers would reach a natural balance.

Part of me thinks that given the numbers on the planet they would proliferate.

Then you get into the suffering and disease and starvation to reach that point.

But, yes, you are right, whatever happened it would be the natural order of things without human intervention.

Mmm.Lot to think about.So veganism isn't really about preventing suffering at all costs - but about natural order.

I can see the reasoning behind that.

Every little thing gives me a bit more insight.

I am on your side.I loathe the mass industry producing animals for consumption at any cost.Thanks for the answer.And the book looks worth a read!

It's certainly brain food :)

Interesting isn't it. So many people think of veganism as fluffy animal lovers with hippy chick everything and it is so much more than that, if anything really. I found out a lot on my journey.... and then I kind of went full circle and started eating meat again. I still have internal debates and tie myself up in moral knots.

Nothing is straight forward!

Certainly seems that way!

PartyPoison You are absolutely right, in my haste to post I missed the 'un' bit!

sparechange I did pay attention in biology, my slipup can be explained by a haste to post (while cooking dinner). Don't be to hasty to judge my error.

*too (really shouldn't mumsnet when I am am doing other stuff)

The thing about male chicks has upset me.

I prefer to eat our own chickens eggs because i know where theyve come from obviously.

We never hurt any male ones even at sunrise when the little bastards woke me up. I'm not going to buy eggs anymore. I may purchase some more chickens (ours died of natural causes).

Please get chooks that need a home.x-battery or similar, Flock!