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Original poster

To ask vegans what's wrong with free range eggs?

116 replies

AndyWarholsBanana · 19/02/2014 07:31

This isn't a TAAT but the raw vegan thread did make me think about the morals of the dairy industry and I can kind of see where vegans are coming from re cows' milk. And obviously battery farming is vile but I can't see how eating eggs from properly free range chickens is cruel. Am I missing something?

OP posts:
Backinthering · 19/02/2014 08:09

I don't think eating eggs from your own free range eggs would be cruel no.
I would imagine meat chickens are both sexes.

travailtotravel · 19/02/2014 08:13

I think vegans wont eat any kind of egg as an egg is essentially an animal and totally off limits.

I think the debate is there to be had with vegetarians - most I know eat eggs but a few don't.

The debate is also there to be had with the rest of us and our own conscience about ethical standards in farming, but having a choice is, I realise, a luxury some people don't have when budgets are tight and the price difference is very clear for welfare standards.

littleredsquirrel · 19/02/2014 08:13

My hens also sit on the eggs for days. They don't eat them. They only eat them if the eggshell is deformed and comes out soft which rarely happens.

They will however eat crushed eggshells quite happily if I mix them in with their food.

ForgettableTampon · 19/02/2014 08:13

There is also the ethical question of keeping an animal (chicken) in captivity (coop or eglu in bavk garden)

MrsOakenshield · 19/02/2014 08:14

by eating the egg you are killing the life that would have been.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/02/2014 08:15

I think egg eating is considered rogue behaviour and chickens can learn it from each other. I was told if I had a chicken that does this to kill it quickly before the others start. Never had it though. Mine just have pellets and scraps. No oyster shell or grit.

If I drop an egg in the run though they're there like a flash. I think they must be a bit dim to not realise they could break the eggs themselves to be honest.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/02/2014 08:16

But if you don't have a cockerel then there's no way it could have been a life.

differentnameforthis · 19/02/2014 08:16

trainersandaches IME they do it if they need the extra calcium. Most commercial chicken food has calcium added, or you can add to your own mix. You can also offer broken egg shells (but should only offer shells from your flocks own eggs - so not shop bought) for them to eat, or oyster shell.

As long as they have a good diet with everything in it that they need, they do not need to peck at their eggs. I have had over 550 eggs from my girls since I have had them & only 1 was broken on collection & that was in the nesting box with no bedding in it (they had thrown it all out). There were no tell tail signs that the egg was pecked at, the other 3 remained intact. The yolk & white were also there (yolk intact)

struggling100 · 19/02/2014 08:18

People are vegans for a lot of different reasons, from a lot of different ethical perspectives. A lot of vegans take a kind of Kantian view which includes animals as a kind of sentient beings, and objects to the idea of using them as a means, instead of treating them as an end in themselves. So if you are eating eggs, you're essentially involved in a kind of exploitation.

There are other rationales, though, including those who point to animal deaths as a necessary consequence of the egg industry.

Geniusismysterious · 19/02/2014 08:18

Hens will produce eggs regardless of whether some eggs have ever been hatched or not.
Hens rarely eat their own eggs.
If they were living in the wild, most male chicks would be torn apart at sexual maturity by the dominant male of the flock. Only one or maybe two males would be tolerated in a large flock.
Is this better or worse than humans managing the flock in the same way?
I'm not sure.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/02/2014 08:18

I sell eggs at the gate and did once have someone ask to see my chicken run as he wanted to make sure they were in kept in good conditions before buying. When he saw their 10ft x 20ft run (for 5 chickens) with an eglu cube and a big walk in aviary he said he'd happily buy the eggs.

Fairylea · 19/02/2014 08:18

Veganism isn't really about the cruelty of the farming industry, it's a bigger picture than that although that's part of it. It's more to do with the idea that animals are sentient beings as are we (whereas plants are not) so we should not be keeping animals in captivity (lots of vegans don't agree with pets) and they would not want to eat or use animal products as it supports and sustains that kind of belief.

I've had many an argument on a vegan forum where hardcore vegans see no difference between an abortion and taking a tablet to kill a tapeworm that has been resident inside your body.(ie both as worthy of life as the other as both sentient beings). I think that's one of the things that turned me off veganism - it's impossible to follow it to the extreme. If you watch a film at the cinema you are supporting using gelatin in film tape.

It goes on...

I could waffle about this all day. I am not vegan or vegetarian anymore. I have come full circle.

But I still enjoy many vegan dishes.

Cakebaker35 · 19/02/2014 08:21

If you keep your own hens and eat their eggs I really can't see the problem. Hens have to lay eggs or they get egg-bound and die (very horrible) so essentially you're eating something that would otherwise be wasted. My family have had a few chickens in our back garden since i was small and these are the only eggs i want to eat. Whoever said chickens eat their own eggs further up thread is not actually correct - they will do this as an absolute last resort only if there is no other food on offer, which doesn't happen if they are being well looked after. Once they grow old and don't produce any more eggs then they just live out their days scratching about in the garden until they go to the big chicken in the sky. Not a bad life.

I once got told off by a former vegan housemate for eating an egg because I was 'killing' an unborn chicken. She thought that all eggs had chicks inside, she clearly hadn't been paying attention during biology lessons and the need for fertilisation to occur.

It's everyone's choice about what they eat but what concerns me is the lack of knowledge and myths that are out there about all sorts of farming - many people spout opinions dressed up fact. Fundamentally I think you either think it is right or wrong to eat animals/animal products - as others have said, it's not really an argument that can be 'won', a bit like argument about religion!

differentnameforthis · 19/02/2014 08:21

by eating the egg you are killing the life that would have been.

Except I don't have a rooster, so none of the eggs will get fertilised, so no life to end/destroy/kill/whatever you want to call it.

VivaLeBeaver · 19/02/2014 08:22

CakeBaker, I once had a worrying conversation with a consultant obstetrician who wouldn't believe me that hens don't need a cockerel in order to produce eggs.

Original poster
AndyWarholsBanana · 19/02/2014 08:23

MrsOaken you're not eating a life that would have been - the eggs aren't fertilised.

OP posts:
thestoker · 19/02/2014 08:23

"by eating the egg you are killing the life that would have been."

Hmm You do know that chickens lay eggs whether fertilised or not...?

Fairylea · 19/02/2014 08:25

Mrs oaken - you're eating a chicken period. Not a chicken baby. It's not been fertilised.

differentnameforthis · 19/02/2014 08:32

Chicken period is such a horrible term. It's an fertilized egg, same as I have every month. My fertilized egg results in a period, where it is shed.

Chicken do not menstruate. Therefore their fertilized egg does not result in a period.

So no, an egg is not a chicken period.

Fairylea · 19/02/2014 08:33

It's an easy way of explaining what it is to someone who thinks you're killing something by eating it. That's all.

AwfulMaureen · 19/02/2014 08:40

DH would. He calls himself a vegan because generally he eats no meat, fish or dairy and he's against farming....he considers it to be the en-slavery of animals. BUT he would, if hungry enough hunt and kill a wild animal. He would also eat an egg from a happy free chicken.

For DH it;s about one species placing itself so far above another that they abuse them....he won't take part in that. I eat anything though and he doesn't judge me for my choices.

LangenFlugelHappleHoff · 19/02/2014 08:43

Grin chicken period

TheScience · 19/02/2014 08:45

"Free range" doesn't really mean cruelty free/living in fields/no animals dying. It means slightly better conditions than battery. If you're opposed to industrial agriculture then it's not much of a difference.

Like dairy, the egg industry means a fair amount of cruelty and death. For a lot of people the difference between that and the meat industry is minimal

rugbychick · 19/02/2014 08:55

My understanding is a vegan wouldn't eat eggs anyway, so no point in asking the question really. Now, if you'd put vegetarian instead of vegan, there's your discussion point

Topaz25 · 19/02/2014 09:05

Free range doesn't mean cruelty free.

"The reality is that 'free range' hens are often kept in 'barn'-type sheds in flocks of up to 16,000. In large-scale free range units, often fewer than 50% of the birds regularly go outside. Some barns, for example, only have doors down one side - imagine the scrum trying to get through the holes to the outside; the hens at the back of the barn are unlikely ever to be able to pick their way through.

Free range hens are frequently debeaked (see below), and, as with all commercial laying hens, they are usually slaughtered after one year of egg production."
www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/campaigns/factory/all/578/