… to think that no one wants to speak up for the younger generation?

[SnowBells]

I don't know what it is. Maybe political correctness gone mad.

Pensioners who are already wealthy get winter fuel allowance, etc. Each time this kind of stuff gets mentioned on things like Question Time or something, people shout and whistle, showing complete disregard for the subject, and no real debate can happen.

I am not talking about the pensioners who aren't well off. But a huge proportion of pensioners did profit from the higher house prices - something not likely to happen for the younger generation.

Our kids have to pay to go to uni. My generation will retire much, much later. We also have to pay for inflated house prices.

And yet, there will be people who say 'but we've paid our taxes'. Well, we pay taxes and our kids will, too, but we are likely to get A LOT less back. I just feel there's a huge generational wealth divide. And I wonder why no one wants to discuss this properly? Why do people want to stop a debate before it has even had a chance to happen?

Everyone will die. Your legacy is the next generation. So why not speak up for what essentially will be your only legacy?

Snowbells exactly.

sadbodyblue, these 'Tory Boys' didn't get in to run the country out of thin air. They were voted in. And who do you think they were voted in by?

Yes, that's right. The baby boomers because they protect their interests.

Incidentally the last Labour government was just as damaging, housing became hugely expensive under them, the grant was abolished, tuition fees introduced, wages stagnated and fell in real terms.

Oh, and people who actually work became more likely to be in poverty than those on benefits under Labour. Mainly young people

Cailin - true, although I look at my sister, cousins and their peers who are 28 - 34 who also can't afford mortgages, renting for the foreseeable future, paying off a ridiculous student debt and moving back in with parents.

That is why I see it as my generation's future. I buggered off first chance that I could.

So... anyone want to answer what their parents would have done in this generation? Without the uni degree and the mines?

seasicksal so right every baby boomer voted for Caneron and are rabid Tories.

really grow up with your ridiculous sweeping generalisations.

my parents and all of their friends are card carrying members of the Labour Party and were since the 60s.

Cameron got in because many daft twats voted for the ridiculous Nick Clegg and blamed Gordon and Ed for the economic mess we are in.

again like Maggie Caneron did not win but labour lost.

again we have another weak looking and weak sounding labour leader and we deserve better.

sadly I expect a Tory landslide next election as again labour arnt getting their shit together.

but it won't be my parents voting Tory.

however there will be many many young voters who do t bother to vote. target them don't vilify all the oldsters.

This organisation researches and lobbies on these issues, OP.

and I see both camps being 50 with 4 kids aged from 24 to 14.. it's bloody tough.

you do realise though that not every baby boomer reads the DM and had a holiday villa in Spain don't you.

in my days as a district nurse I can tell you there are very very many baby boomers in desperate poverty.

SadOldBodyBlue. Oh right. So if your parents vote Labour they must all be Labour then. I don't think I am the one making 'generalisations' that can't be backed up with facts.

Since 1970 when the baby boomers started making up the large rump of the electorate we have had 25 years of Conservative government and only 18 of Labour. And most of the time Labour were in they were operating under a Tory free market economic policy.

But no, obviously those Tory governments weren't voted in by age group who made up the largest part of the electorate, they were voted in by all the squirrels who voted. Because your Mum doesn't vote for them so surely the fact that it's statistically clear and can be backed up that baby boomers voted for them your scientific method of 'my mum doesn't vote for them' is much more reliable than actual facts.

And there is no point young people voting because no matter who they vote for their interests will not be represented because the numbers simply don't add up. Even if they all voted at the next election they still would not have the numbers to make a difference when they are up against the baby boom vote.

Labour or Conservative or Lib Dem, all the parties now protect the financial interests of the older generation against the young.

Nobody is going to realistically try and make housing cheaper when the mass of the electorate is sitting on a gold mine from house prices which have gone up 10x in price or more since they bought them.

sadbodyblue

Unfortunately, the above does not make ANY sense. Labour is not the great party you make it out to be.

Speaking as someone who should now a fair bit about economics... I can tell you that the current government cannot be fully blamed for the mess. Economic crises do not happen over night. Nor do they happen over a couple of years. It normally builds up over MANY years. Very likely over the previous successive administrations - including Blair and Brown.

Do you remember the tale of the ant and the grasshopper? Well, Labour quite literally behaved like the grasshopper. Times were good... and they spent and spent and spent. The expenditure in Whitehall went up. Benefits went up by a huge amount - likely to people who didn't need it. Once you give, it's difficult to take. House prices went up by ridiculous amounts DESPITE Gordon Brown announcing in the late 90s that he would not let that happen. Nobody seems to remember that?

And obviously, Thatcher got rid of the traditional WC jobs without ever thinking about what should replace them.

Whoever got elected would be left cleaning up what was done by previous administrations. Whether the current government has dealt with it correctly is questionable.

Really... we need what Germany has. The industry and real politicians (not personalities) like Merkel.

Everyone here is falling into the same old trap that those with the power always set for us.

Divide and conquer, that's what they do. Set ordinary people against each other. Blame the baby boomers, the public sector workers, blame the unemployed, blame the disabled, the single mums or the immigrants.

No. Blame the elected governments of all colours that have put the interests and greed of big business before the welfare of ordinary people.

I think it's sad that this debate has turned into pensioners v young people - isn't it possible to admit that young people have a hard time of it now without saying "Oh but back in my day...."?

The problem for the younger generation is that we're constantly told to do better, try harder, work more and then when we do everything right and jump through every hoop we then get told we're "entitled" for expecting to be able to find employment.

I've been very lucky in life, I'm naturally academic and got straight A's throughout my exams so got into a top university.

I got a retail job at 14 and, knowing the right people, at 16 I got a summer job working in data entry. 2 years later the data entry job had gone but fortunately I got a "promotion" to admin support (although still NMW). The next year the whole department had been moved abroad so I got a job in telesales - which has also now been moved abroad.

After uni I moved to London for a graduate job (with 80 applicants per place) and got a room in a houseshare. The deposit and fees was £1500 - I'd previously been living on around £5k a year from maintenance fees and part time work. My rent, for a room in a 6 bed house in East London with 1 mouldy bathroom, a tiny kitchen and no living room, was nearly half my salary.

After 3 years of living for payday and being completely unable to save, I got offered a promotion to the northern office where thankfully I am now financially secure. Many of my friends are in their late twenties with no such end in sight.

What worries me is how does someone 5/10 years younger than me replicate this now? How do you get a foot on the ladder when all the low level jobs are either shipped abroad, or already taken by older more experienced people who also desperately need work? How can you afford to move for work if you've got no savings because you haven't got a part-time job? How do you do all this if you haven't excelled academically and got a degree from a top university or wealthy parents to support you?

The world has become tougher & more competitive and if the younger generation doesn't excel then we cast them aside with a "should have tried harder". Politicians cast anyone who is struggling as workshy or a scrounger, ignoring the fact that they created a situation where jobs need to be topped up by benefits because life is more expensive but companies don't pay for it, ignoring the fact that the low level, non-graduate jobs are disappearing. And whenever young people speak up about their uncertainity, the struggles and worries they go through, they get told they've never had it better.

Cameron got in because many daft twats voted for the ridiculous Nick Clegg

As one of those 'daft twats' I voted Liberal because I believed many of their policies. And like thousands of equally-minded Liberal voters how were we to know that spineless dickhead Clegg would sell us all down a Tory river? That doesn't make us daft, or twats.

I like Callani's post. I have a big group of friends in their mid to late 30's who can't afford their own homes, have large student debts, no pension and can't afford to have children. With no prospect of that ever changing. This isn't just a personal tragedy for them - this is a timebomb waiting to go off.

Anna yes apologise. it's was quite credible to belive Clegg at the time. he's the spineless daft twat.

Seasick I did not generalise like you I simply pointed out that my parents and their friends voted Labour. many youngsters voted Tory as did many folks of all ages. I was telling tiu don't generalise as it's silly.

snow you obviously haven't read my previous posts because I actually mentioned your points, yes Labour are as crap and short sighted as the Tories, too many career politicians and no convictions. agree Re Germany.

moonmin yes 100% as I posted previously I hate the fact of older worker v younger worker none of whom caused this bloody mess.

divide and conquer of the workers just like Thatcher did.

The government of today is like my generation and younger really.

The money was spent before us - complaining about this govt. cutting services is like my parents complaining (while retired on pensions I am paying for) that I will enjoy working until I'm 99.

I applaud your post Callani.

I have 2 naturally academic sons, they have worked hard at school and have, also, had part time jobs since they were 15. They aren't lazy or work shy. They don't expect anything for nothing. However, they often wonder why they bother. Where the opportunities are for them, because realistically they aren't there.

I left school in 1987. I knew what I wanted to do, I started writing letters to all the potential employers in my area at Easter. I finished my exams one week and had a full time job the next. I went to college on a day release scheme to achieve the qualifications I needed. That doesn't happen anymore.

DS1(19) has all A*s and As at GCSE and AAB at A level, he is going through the process to join the Army because he doesn't want the debt from university. He has always wanted to join the Army, originally as an officer, so was going to get a degree. But there is no guarantee he'll get in, so would apply as a soldier, he doesn't want the Uni debt. That has been a massive part of his decision. It shouldn't have had to have been.

DS2(17) wants to be a nurse. He is made to be a nurse. IMO, nurse training should go back to how it was. All these poor nurses saddled with debt before they start, and they earn such poor wages. When I started training in 1992 it was just changing over from being salaried to train to getting a bursary.

Young kids get a hard deal, imo. I know all pensioners don't have it easy, but my PILS do, my parents do, my uncle and aunt do. They all vote Tory. There are plenty more like them.

Why on earth would I apologise to you sadbody?

I watched Newsnight last night and the small debate about how MPs in parliament descend to braying, etc.

There's something about Jacob Rees-Mogg I really don't like. I feel politicians in this country are expected to be mpre like TV personalities than anything else.

Look at Angela Merkel - no TV personality there... but she delivers and just does the job.

But don't worry, the call has clearly gone out to the "young people have too many IPHONES! Too much STUFF! We had it tough interest rates were 15 percent yap yap yap" crowd who will helpfully come along and drown out for example some basic maths.

Haha isn't that the truth, they also uniformly conveniently omit the massive offset effect that MIRAS had on those (short lived) 15% interest rates. I've even had some particularly thick people try to deny MIRAS existed at all to me. And then they claim its young people who are poorly educated...

sayxa

I didn't live in the UK back then... wow. I knew you could do something like that in the US. But not the UK.

So it IS fact then: the previous generation did have it better.

it depends on how you mean better:

e.g. if you are retired on a a well funded indexed linked pension, you have faired better than future generations but if you are retired and werent entitled to this type of pension (e.g. self employed) this does not apply to you.

on the other hand life expectancy has gone up and diseases that were fatal/debilitating in the past now can be cured/managed.

so really to talk in very general terms about entire generations which are really made up of very different individuals facing very different situations on life is of limited meaning.

i agree housing has gone up more than wages, but then so has the time you get to be alive.

I've googled MIRAS but I don't really understand what exactly they were - could someone explain please?

How would the government keep housing prices down? By providing more council houses? Or some other method?

I think this divide comes from the baby boomers. Most of them simply have no idea what it is like for younger people.

From what I can see they are judging their own children as entitled and demanding. Nice. There is something wrong there.

My father would rather interest rates go up and I struggle than that they stay low and he has to suffer one less holiday a year. AND the person who goes on about having 'paid in' the most is his (DM reading) wife, who has been a housewife all her life.

I teach young people and they seem politically engaged to me - just as much as my generation were (40s). I do admire their values, they seem to be creating a culture that doesn't depend on money or material things. Look beyond the media, it doesn't represent much.

Callani

I think MIRAS allowed you to offset a portion of your mortgage interest payments against your taxes. There are other countries where (I believe) that can still be done.

CailinDana
How to keep prices down? Easy. Charge landtax on unbuilt land. Stops developers from hogging land. Also rent control - stops landlords charging large amounts, making it less lucrative. Make only a small percentage of rwsidential properties available to overseas buyers who do not live in the UK at least 300 days a year. Laws like that exist in other places where property is sparse.

Basically, remove competition of 'normal' buyers and prices should go down.