… to think that no one wants to speak up for the younger generation?

[SnowBells]

I don't know what it is. Maybe political correctness gone mad.

Pensioners who are already wealthy get winter fuel allowance, etc. Each time this kind of stuff gets mentioned on things like Question Time or something, people shout and whistle, showing complete disregard for the subject, and no real debate can happen.

I am not talking about the pensioners who aren't well off. But a huge proportion of pensioners did profit from the higher house prices - something not likely to happen for the younger generation.

Our kids have to pay to go to uni. My generation will retire much, much later. We also have to pay for inflated house prices.

And yet, there will be people who say 'but we've paid our taxes'. Well, we pay taxes and our kids will, too, but we are likely to get A LOT less back. I just feel there's a huge generational wealth divide. And I wonder why no one wants to discuss this properly? Why do people want to stop a debate before it has even had a chance to happen?

Everyone will die. Your legacy is the next generation. So why not speak up for what essentially will be your only legacy?

[SnowBells]

Procrastinating

You are describing the MAJORITY of baby boomers I've come to know.

Had an argument with mum the other day who said they (mum & dad) deserve a holiday. Mum was a SAHM since the age of 23. Dad has been retired for over a decade. When I pointed out they go on 3-5 holidays per year, she said that their closest friends go on more holidays than them.

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

but most pensioners are on low incomes.

[Fifyfomum]

I think there is a sad misunderstanding here. The technological abilities of our young are something we should be harvesting and supporting, not suggesting is a negative.

It's a global market out there and there is a huge IT shortage. Few countries in the world have children as adept with technology as us, yet frequently we are out performed by people who have never seen a computer until they are 15 and have learnt everything from there.

We need to stop educating our kids with boring trivial shite and instead focus on information technology, design technology, innovations in the digital age,

This is what we should be investing in.

[SnowBells]

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime

But young people now will most likely not get anything from the state when they retire. Hence, they are told to save up from their own income WHILE they work. Why didn't today's pensioners do that? Like someone said above... benefits are not freakin' savings account. They are an emergency fund!

If young people don't save, they will face a future that is worse than the pensioners of today.

[Procrastinating]

The pensioners on low incomes are not the problem YouAreMy. They are a different, and much nicer, kettle of fish.

[SnowBells]

Fifyfomum

The technical ability that is really required in IT are actually hard to come by. There are not many who are talented enough to make it Silicon Valley-style. A lot of people I know who make it in that industry are naturally very, very clever, and many even have PhDs.

Also, compared to other countries, software engineering jobs, for example, are ridiculously low-paid jobs in the UK (don't know why?) unless you work for a large multinational firm - preferably Google. There are ads out there requiring a Masters/PhD, and the pay equals around 25k. The same job in the US would net you around $80k.

Yet, a head of a council can earn triple digits, when the job is mainly bureaucratic pencil-pushing, and does not create anything. In most countries, they wouldn't be paid that much. Especially not by the government.

I don't know - the UK is very weird like that.

[Fifyfomum]

This is exactly what I am saying. We need to be focusing on this global shortage of highly skilled and innovative IT specialists. We definitely have the right demographic in our young people, we just need to help them realise it by focusing on those skills in education, making the work lucrative on the other side and everyone in the country will reap the benefits of that expertise.

[brettgirl2]

the incomes point though is the big issue. That's how we measure how well off people are. However if I didn't have to pay for childcare, a mortgage, petrol to get to work, 2 cars to make it logistically possible then life would be easier.

This 15 per cent interest stuff is always trotted out, it was only for a short time.

My fil retired at 47 and spends the winter on the beach. My own parents are less well off but still own a house worth 500k. Poor education? ? Erm they all went to grammar schools then fil got a grant for uni that allowed him to run a car. df somehow managed to get a scholarship for public school (and seriously that can't have been hard bless him)

Yes they worked hard (well until 47) but the point is that these days for young people it doesn't always make a difference.

In their case the only hardship they really suffered is that apart from my df their families when they were children had little (although in a well fed kind of way)

yanbu op but the problem is that there are a lot of pensioners and their voting power is immense. And of course no one wants poor pensioners to starve/ freeze from lack of heading.

[zebrafinch]

I Agree with Callani post.

Life is very tough now especially for young people. My daughter and her cousins are all in their twenties and struggling to establish themselves in the job market despite having degrees, unpaid work experience, volunteering , stint of working abroad etc. Decent hardworking young people whose dreams are being dashed. Such a waste of young talent.

The solution to this is not to engage in divide and rule and envy? of older people but to create more jobs for young people so that they can go forward in life and use their enthusiasm, creativity and knowledge.

A roof over your head and a job. It's no too much to ask in life is it?

[YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime]

snow bells - I am 40 and don't expect to get any meaningful income from the state.

and that's a good thing because anything else is unsustainable.

[juule]

By comments such as ". Poor education? ? Erm they all went to grammar schools" I assume you mean 'your' parents and in-laws when you say 'they all' as it certainly wouldn't include my parents.

[brettgirl2]

it may not jule but why is it being tough for older people considered being worse for younger?

btw I am lucky enough to be old enough to have bought a house at v the right time and have established career before credit crunch. Even that difference to those just starting out is staggering.

[juule]

I suspect it can be worse being tough for older people than younger because (generally) younger people don't also have to contend with any physical problems that happen with aging. They also have time on their side to find a way to improve their situation.
But similar to your example it won't apply to everyone. There are people ( young and old ) in comfortable situations and others ( young and old ) in difficult situations. I can't see one group blaming the comfortable lot in the other group will help anyone.

[wordfactory]

I really really feel for the young generation.

Tertiary education costs a fortune and will go up and up and up. Entry level jobs are on the decrease.

House prices are extortionate. The cost of living is extortionate. Benefits are being slashed and I would eat my pants if they get a state pension when they retire (that will become just another benefit for the destitute).

[SnowBells]

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime

I don't either. But why couldn't the previous generation think like that, too?

It's obvious that state pension is nothing more but a pyramid scheme...

[SnowBells]

So basically, younger generations have to:

• pay pension of older generation
  
• pay for university
  
• save up for their pension
  

They have to pay much, much more… and achieve much, much more as competition is now so hard. If you weren't academic back then, you HAD options. Now, how many jobs that can pay for a family are out there for which you don't need a degree?

There was also a time when just getting a degree was seen as great. Now, it's a 2.1 or 1st that is needed. There are plenty of older partners at magic circle law firms that got a 2.2. They would never let anyone with that degree class into their companies now.

[SnowBells]

I would pay to see an MP bring this up in parliament. But most likely the other MPs are from the baby boomer generation and will resort to braying. They are like stupid kids really, British politicians.

[juule]

"If you weren't academic back then, you HAD options"

But also if you WERE academic not everyone had options to go to university as you had to go to work to contribute to the family income.

[SnowBells]

juule

I am sure you didn't have to contribute to family income. It's just your family made you feel like you had to?

There were loads of examples of WC kids being offered grammar school places, which their parents despised. Kids went to uni against their parents wishes, and caused a family rift. I think it was more with WC parents thinking their kids should not be any different from them.

You still get the same scenario now with very ingrained WC families.

[juule]

Erm yes I did. You have no idea about my family situation. And whether some parents despised? being given grammar school places for their kids I haven't come across those parents. I do know of parents who couldn't send their children to grammar school because they couldn't afford to even though the child was going on a scholarship.
And you're sounding a bit sneery about the working class. Are the WC not included in your view of had-it-easy babyboomers.

[senua]

I think that we ought to go back to the old system where pensioners were skint and died younger, often of hypothermia. Life was so much better then.

[hiccupgirl]

It's an interesting point to ask how the baby boomers would cope if they were young nowadays.

But I think it's more interesting to ask what would young people today do if they were put back into the baby boomers youth. How many of them would sit there and think I won't take that grammar school education or free university place because in 50 years time I'll get blamed for the economic situation. Of course they wouldn't. They do what people like my dad did - take the breaks offered to escape from his working poor background of living hand to mouth in a freezing cold damp house.

I completely agree that all benefits should be means tested but don't blame ordinary people who just happen to have been young at a time of social mobility and growth. That's just how it happened and I certainly wouldn't wanted to have grown up in that post war world. In comparison my upbringing in the 70s and 80s was very cushy.

Myself at 41 I graduated into a recession with no jobs in 1994. I was lucky to find low paid temp work that eventually lead to something else. I was also lucky that I bought a property very early on although it meant we had no money for years and slept on an air bed for a long time because we couldn't afford a bed. I know my son is unlikely to have the breaks I did so I'm saving hard for him.

This government is doing exactly what every government since Thatcher came in has done - rule by dividing and pitting people against each other. Don't fall into the trap of believing the crap spouted to hide the fact that the rich just get richer and big business gets all the breaks.

[juule]

It still happens Senua
Spread the Warmth is Age UK’s annual winter campaign. Launched in 2010 in response to the needless deaths of more than 200 older people per day in the cold weather,"

[juule]

Good post Hiccupgirl

[wordfactory]

I agree that we can't blame the baby boomers. They got lucky !

But I do think it behoves them to acknowledge their good fortune.

I hear far too many women d'un certain age braying about paying their taxes when they actually gave up work in their twenties and then went back little more than PT in their later years.

Their disregard for the younbger generation and their plight is pretty vile...