… to think that no one wants to speak up for the younger generation?

[SnowBells]

I don't know what it is. Maybe political correctness gone mad.

Pensioners who are already wealthy get winter fuel allowance, etc. Each time this kind of stuff gets mentioned on things like Question Time or something, people shout and whistle, showing complete disregard for the subject, and no real debate can happen.

I am not talking about the pensioners who aren't well off. But a huge proportion of pensioners did profit from the higher house prices - something not likely to happen for the younger generation.

Our kids have to pay to go to uni. My generation will retire much, much later. We also have to pay for inflated house prices.

And yet, there will be people who say 'but we've paid our taxes'. Well, we pay taxes and our kids will, too, but we are likely to get A LOT less back. I just feel there's a huge generational wealth divide. And I wonder why no one wants to discuss this properly? Why do people want to stop a debate before it has even had a chance to happen?

Everyone will die. Your legacy is the next generation. So why not speak up for what essentially will be your only legacy?

I have lived as an adult through several governments, seen at least 3 recessions, house booms, house prices dropping. High inflation, low inflation, very high interest rates, very low interest rates.
It is always changing, now I feel comfortable 20 years ago didn't know where my next meal was coming from.

Young people didn't cause the mess the economy is in either. But the tuition fees have rocketed, they are proposing no housing benefit for under 25s. The house prices are ridiculous, there are no bloody jobs, apprenticeships are like hen's teeth, if they are on benefits they are being cut.

Why should the pensioners be protected from the cuts? We're meant to all be in it together!

IamInvisible it's because they vote

Why oh why do people go on about house prices all the time, they are not high unless you are south and this has always been the case.
You can buy a starter home here NW 2 bed nice terrace for 40K if you are prepared to learn how to do it up a bit, and not be so bloody entitled.
Hey, guess what? that's the same we paid for our first home in 1992.

I know Jolly.

It stinks and it's unfair.

We live in the East Midlands. Houses prices are high here. You couldn't buy anything for £40k.

We're not entitled, we don't choose where to live, we go where the government tell us.

Jollyphonics, if that is what you think people from 'all walks of life' live like you are absolutely deluded.

Have you not noticed that pubs and wine bars are closing down willy nilly because nobody can afford to go out anymore? That budget clothes shops are massively popular and retail is struggling because people aren't spending money?

The lifestyle you are describing is a reasonably wealthy middle class one. Considering most people these days are worrying about paying the mortgage and the gas bill it's not a typical lifestyle at all.

Do you interrogate everyone you meet through work on their financial situation? I think you have obviously found yourself a nice comfortably wealthy part of the world to ensconce yourself in and are assuming that everybody lives like those around you.

potato and if houses nearby where you live aren't 40k, what are you meant to do? Rents where I live are 1200+ for a dilapidated 2-bed terrace: prices of same start at 320k+. What are normal people (or people under 40) meant to do? All move to the NW?

Given that the average UK house price is more than 3x higher in real terms (ie adjusted for inflation) than the average price in 1992, I would suggest that your 40k house is vanishingly rare.

Seasick please stop making this personal. But for the record, I'm a GP in a midlands market town, with a reasonably varied population. I'm just telling you my observations. And yes, financial discussions form a large part of many consultations.

Most pensioners have paid into the pot all their lives.
Thatcher never had a majority vote.
Old people fund their own care, they don't really have a choice about selling their homes to pay for it.

The government that is inflicting the cuts was voted for by everyone you know, not just the pensioners.

And to be honest, young people these days are completely apathetic. They have no interest in politics or union membership or feminism or any of the stuff we used to improve our rights and our standard of living. They are interested in bloody phones and porn and celebrity culture.

Invisible I am also in the east midlands. My current mortgage repayments are about 280 a month. That is very cheap IMO.

Train: you move, you commute, you share a house with another family, you live in a small flat. You deal with it, basically. I would love to live in St Tropez but I can't. Tough luck for me but whinging about it doesn't do me much good.

None of those things are true - current pensioners might have paid "into the pot" but they are net beneficiaries, not net contributors (and the boomers as a whole will be net beneficiaries). They will take out far more than they put in - individually and collectively. And if you want to split hairs - a great proportion of boomer and pensioner women did not pay into the pot at all in their own right.

I work with young people and you are totally wrong about them being politically apathetic. And since when were the boomers so politically active, apart from voting in their own interests? Where were the mass campaigns to save us from economic and environmental disaster?

Yeah right, I work in a high-skill job and I'm meant to move 3 hours' drive to the NW to find an affordable house? There isn't a house within a radius of at least 100 miles of me. Are we all meant to move to where the jobs aren't? It doesn't make economic sense. Are you suggesting all the people on minimum wage jobs in London commute in from Hull?

It makes no sense to peddle this stuff about how younger people should adjust their expectations when it's just colluding with an economy that has gone very wrong. How are the "poor bubbas" that have to fund their university education going to support your pensions and healthcare entitlements when you're old? If there are no bubbas who can afford to train as doctors and nurses and research scientists who is going to provide your healthcare in 30 years' time when you're 61?

an affordable* house! Obvs plenty of houses; shame they're all at least twelve times the local median salary in my area

Train, you need to educate yourself, about the Miners' strike, the Poll Tax riots, countless demos and marches to protect people's employment rights and student grants. Greenham common, anti racism rallies.
Every student I knew spent their youth protesting about injustice. Kids nowadays don't give a monkeys.

Of course people can afford to train as doctors and nurses, that is blatantly ridiculous. Students get loans, those from poorer income families get grants and bursaries.

moomin I'm an economic historian specialising in twentieth century history - I don't "need to educate myself" about the poll tax, thanks but you do need to talk to some young people for a change. My current students are far more commited to political causes than any boomer I've ever met (and I come from the grim north of popular Scargillite memory )

But you are right that the economy has gone wrong. That is due to the rise of places like China and India and the fact that Britain doesn't actually produce anything anymore. Not the pensioners.

There is a difference between pensioners and boomers (though lots of boomers are retiring); but ask yourself how many people you know are landlords or own multiple properties. Is it the young people?

Economic globalisation was an explicitly neoliberal policy pursued by Western governments - it was not an accident. It was designed to create this kind of economy.

So who do you think was Poll Tax protesting or in the Miners Strike Train? Obviously the boomer generation. Do you seriously think young people are more politically aware nowadays? How old are you anyway?
My eldest is 20 and I have two teens. I talk to lots of young people. I am actually quite worried if you are teaching them economic history.

Train, students will get loans. Just like they do all over the world. A university education can cost 60,000 dollars in the US - they have no lack of professionals. My DH paid fees and accommodation for 8 years while doing a degree and an unfunded PhD and left with no debt. He did it by working shit jobs and saving every penny.

Moomin what was the demographic profile of the Toxteth poll tax riots?

I think the whole "baby boomers got free uni education" thing is rubbish. The vast, vast majority of them did not get anything of the sort. My dad left school at 15 and worked until he was 68. I don't think today's 15 years olds have the kind of maturity and work ethic to start work at that age. I have worked with 21-22 year olds who were just starting their first job. And they are still children in many ways.

I think lack of attention span is a major problems with todays kids. They all seem to have issues with addiction to mobile phones and other devices. Even when their jobs are on the line they can't resist using them.

Dana in fact there is a massive crisis in US studebt debt funding at the moment, as most students simply cannot afford to meet the payments on their university debt. In future a medical degree in this country will cost up to 90k including fees and maintenance. A degree will cost up to 27k in fees plus the same in maintenance. The new funding situation has completely changed the position regarding grants and bursaries: many bursaries have been forcibly converted into fee waivers so students will never see then upfront and will have to fund their maintenance themselves. If you have a family income over a certain threshold you will no longer be eligible for student loans.

I have absolutely no idea. I suspect there were plenty of people of my generation there. Just like the miners strike and Greenham common.
Remind me again of the mass political protests young people today are concerned with.
I have plenty of friends who are teachers, it is the older ones willing to protest about pay and pensions. The younger ones won't even join the unions. Same with the NHS.