to wonder why anyone with young children would have a dog as a pet or on their home?

[needtobediscreet]

In light of the many incidents of death and injury caused to young children by dogs, even those not previously considered a danger, I can't help but wonder WHY anyone would. The latest seems to involve a six day old baby in west Wales.

Don't get me wrong, I love animals. I grew up with cats and had a pet dog myself when I was in secondary school. But the nicest of dogs can 'turn' it seems and the results are a lot worse than when a cat gets a bit upset.

Clearly in the majority of cases the affected families weren't deliberately neglectful but why take the risk?

I'm prepared for lots of responses from dog owners....!!!

The right dog is a wonderful considerate pet?dogs like us need love,boundaries,consistency
In absence of love,consistency and with ill treatment dog will behave badly
In fact just like us.It's about the right breed for a domestic setting

I don't know circumstances I'm wales, I'm sorry to hear infant has died

I was viciously attacked by the family cat when I was 5. I still have scars. My mum would leave me alone, unsupervised with the dog. She had seemingly infinite patience.

Dogs are fine as long as they are never left unsupervised with little ones.

pag has fuzz on her bum but no grassy winnetts right?

[true]

I had a dog (still do) when my first child was a baby, I didn't leave them together. Then I had a second child 20 months later, I didn't leave the two children together unsupervised or I doubt I would have a 20 year old son now. My DD would have shoved something in his mouth or bashed him on the head with something. She's a fully qualified paediatric nurse now so not particularly dangerous she was just a normal toddler, fairly dangerous to newborn babies without supervision.

I would love this op to be posted in the Doghouse! Especially as some posters have mentioned packs. I can see why it is here but on the other hand wouldn't it be an idea to seek the experience of the dog owners? I dare you to move the thread to where the rescuers, vets and behavioural experts lie and I truly believe you would be hard pushed to find more expert and balanced advice although the pack theorists may be garrotted.

Having read the article, it seems that the dog was not with them from a puppy and they'd only had it a few months.

I assume that they didn't know it's background and whether it was used to children.

I don't understand why someone would bring a dog of which they have no idea about its background into a family home.

Really very very sad for all involved. At the end of the day a mother has lost her child in the most tragic of circumstances.

This shouldn't turn into a dog fight and you are being VVV UR

Theodorus - not being a dog owner, I was unaware of the Doghouse on here. (I have listened to that niche dog programme on LBC radio at least once though which was a useful insight into the minds of some dog owners.) I'll consider your dare. At least one expert (a children's nurse) has responded on this thread though. By definition though, she'll only see the cases where attacks have happened but I still give weight to her input.

The case in Wales involves a six day old girl whose 'head' was 'eaten' (in the words of the distraught mother)by the family's newly acquired Malamute. The baby was airlifted to hospital but sadly died.

I've made no mention of 'packs' of dogs. Not sure many other posters did either. It is true though, is it not, that dogs are pack animals?

Shall I post ALL the articles of pets saving kids lives?

How about one from yesterday where the dog went with the little boy who walked away from home. Stayed by his side the entire time.

Or the one where the STRAY dog kept a lost boy warm when he was lost on a freezing night?

Or the YouTube clip I saw today about the boy with a disability and his 3 legged dog and the wonderful bond they share?

I would be stupid to say my dogs would never turn but I see that possibility as 0.0001% because my dogs are sweethearts. My girl's are wonderful with kids. They love them. I will also teach my kids respect around animals.

I personally can't abide cats in a home. They actually climb on faces :S

I was in no way attacking anyone individually

I trusted my dog completely with my children, quite often left him alone with them, even as tiny babies and I knew he wouldn't harm them, and Now he is old and blind and they have learnt how to be as kind and gentle to him as he was to them and everyone else he meets.

Dogs are raised and taught how to behave be their owners and their owners know their limitations, I'd never trust any other dog in the same way as I don't know them.

Or attacking anyone at all, just proposing that a dog thread could be run by the experts. Violent and stupid people have violent dogs and they are the assholes not your common or garden normal owner or dog

Pfff, anything can kill you or hurt you (or your children). you cannot protect them from everything. never leave a pet alone with a small child, always supervise them. I have no dogs, but 3 cats, and a baby in a few weeks. going to put claw covers on them as they can be clumsy with claws, and also they're not allowed in the bedroom. train your pets and be a responsible owner and you're highly likely to have no problems :)

I wouldn't get rid of the dogs unless I was concerned. I'm not concerned.

I'm aware there's a risk, as I am aware there are risks with other life choices I make and I choose to make those choices anyway. I believe the benefit of having dogs outweighs the risks and if there comes a time when that changes then I'll reassess but I seriously hope there doesn't come a time...

I hope any kids we have love and respect animals as much as my husband and I do. They bring joy and studies have shown that having a pet (dog or cat) lowers your stress. It's also known to help with allergies.

If you have a dog and keep it when you have kids, you're an irresponsible parent.

If you have a dog and get rid of it when you have kids, you're a heartless, irresponsible dog owner.

If you have a dog and work, you're a terrible dog owner for ever leaving poor fluffy alone.

If you have a dog and don't work, how on earth are you going to afford vaccinations/neutering/insurance/worming/food?

Damned if you do and damned if you don't!!!

I get so sick and tired about dogs v children threads.

All dogs are unpredictable around all children whether they know them or not, and however well trained they are or not. If you understand this, and are prepared to supervise all of your children around all of your dogs, and all of your dogs around children, you will have children who love and understand dogs and how dangerous they can be, even the smallest of them.

Dogs don't need to understand, they are dogs.

And, I am sorry, but the same goes for cats.

Every animal is a threat to a child. No matter how old, innocuous or harmless they might seem.

I have 3 dogs, 2 cats, 3 DC's, and none of the DC's were ever allowed to be on their own with a dog or cat until they were at least 7yo, and older than that with the biggest dog even though he was a softie and still is. He is a dog, no matter how much I love him or how soft he is, I cannot predict his behaviour with a baby or something smaller than him, and never will.

my very large boxer is currently trying to eat the bubbles my girls are blowing from their hands out of the bath

I have six dogs and a two year old DS. All the dogs are trained as certified therapy dogs and are eligible to go in to schools and nursing homes. It's a fairly minimal risk that I'm willing to take, and I manage the situation appropriately through supervision, baby gates, crates and training. DS adores out dogs, and they adore him. He even got a little vet trolley for christmas and they patiently sit there while he plays vet with them (supervised). The dogs all have their crates, and DS is learning that you do not go near the crates if the dogs are in them because it's their time out. The dogs also eat in crates so that he doesn't try and annoy them when eating. They're good, but it is about risk management and not creating a situation where a problem may develop.

Dogs are pack animals, but that doesn't mean that they're going to turn in to a savage pack of wolves without notice. Even if you only own one dog, your family is the pack for that dog, and they need to be aware of their place within it. I am the head of our pack, and other humans are always above any dog. But then within my six dogs, they have their own hierarchy, which I promote through the way they are treated. Funnily enough, my two male stud dogs are bottom of the pack, and the smallest, desexed bitch is the top!

As a breeder, I do recommend a two year guideline. Either the dog should be two years old before you have a baby, or your child should be two before you get a new puppy. I cringe when I hear of people wanting to get a new puppy at the same time they are pregnant. The puppy will be less interesting once the new baby arrives on the scene, and it's generally two before a dog has gone through the puppy/toddler/teenage stage themselves and is able to cope with less attention for a while.

sykadelic - maybe the heartwarming stories counterbalance the heartbreaking ones for some, but not me. I put 'dog bit' into the mumsnet talk search box earlier. Some of the results were scary.

Theodorus - I didn't interpret it as a personal attack.

I'm not saying I don't understand dog ownership in general, just saying that for me, the risk of a dog whose (albeit unlikely) attack at a level of a child's head (as opposed to an adult leg) is not one I consider worth the trade off of the positives of dog ownership. Maybe when my kids are older I'll reconsider.

From what I've heard about the dog involved in the death of the 6 day old baby it was a stolen dog sold to someone down the pub.

Dog was stolen be his owners ex, taken miles from home and sold to a guy down the pub as he no longer wanted it. Whether that's true or not I don't know very sad though :-(

Massive sigh.

I agree with op to a certain extent & I am a dog lover & owner in the past. You can absolutely cut down the risk of a dog harming your child by choosing the right breed, buying from a reputable breeder as a puppy. I'd never have a rescue dog around small children as you don't know what the dog was like in the past. (Never take the previous owners word that the dog is friendly. & great with children!!!) treat the puppy well & with respect, never torment the puppy or allow children to do so especially where it's food is concerned. Even then I'd never leave a dog & baby unattended.

The dog in today's story was brought home from a pub as an adult dog!! It is a breed known to need lots of exercise & a breed known to be aggressive.

It's a personal decision OP.
I would not have a dog and a small child together in my home, I taught both my children to be aware and respectful of dogs and neither of them are afraid of them. DD may become a dog owner in the future.
As small children, I drove them around in a car, let them play on the beach, had them vaccinated babies and and fed them peanut butter. All risky in some way or another.
But children will continue to be maimed and killed by dogs until dog and child possession is taken more seriously by those involved.

I've brought up 3 DCs safely with 2 dogs. Never leave dogs with young children. Ever.

Never let children torment or bother dogs. Get dogs as puppies from bet reputable source. Exercise dogs very frequently. Go to dog training classes to socialise dogs.

Even so, never ever assume that your lovely dog is safe with children. They are dogs, they can't be responsible for their behaviour.

Lacking - it's a v sad story all round. Sad that people treat animals that way and tragic what's happened to the baby.

Mothra and rainbow - I agree!