to wonder why anyone with young children would have a dog as a pet or on their home?

[needtobediscreet]

In light of the many incidents of death and injury caused to young children by dogs, even those not previously considered a danger, I can't help but wonder WHY anyone would. The latest seems to involve a six day old baby in west Wales.

Don't get me wrong, I love animals. I grew up with cats and had a pet dog myself when I was in secondary school. But the nicest of dogs can 'turn' it seems and the results are a lot worse than when a cat gets a bit upset.

Clearly in the majority of cases the affected families weren't deliberately neglectful but why take the risk?

I'm prepared for lots of responses from dog owners....!!!

WeeClype - cory might have asked you what you planned to do with the toddler once baby arrived.....

I remember as it was pretty nuts.

But we do take precautions. I'm not furious just think it's extreme really. How many babies have been smothered by cats? Quite a few, I am sure. But keep the cast out of the room then it won't happen.

I agree if a dog is aggressive it should not stay in the household. Adults choose to take that risk but babies and small children aren't given the choice.

liquid - is your dog a working dog?

Sounds like you're giving it all a good amount of thought. If the dog can jump over the playpen, I wouldn't leave baby in there while you pop to the loo or answer the door though.

needtobediscreet

I very much doubt cory would ask that. She was making an analogy.

Toddlers can injure babies, left unsupervised. And kill, if a fucking idiot has left a loaded gun within toddler reach. Not out of malice, but becaue they're toddlers. Lack of gun safety isn't so much of a problem in Britain, naturally.

Here's a thread of parents talking about things their toddlers did to the baby. www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/archive/index.php/t-315413.html

We have a dog, but he never gets alone with the children.
There is always a risk that a dog will turn, so we will not be having more dogs after this one while the children are so young.
Most of the incidents involving dogs and young children in the news, also involve total idiots who seem to think its a good idea to have a large strong breed on a whim.
So sad about that little baby.

This happened in the UK: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-499893/Toddler-3-killed-month-old-brother-sitting-him.html
And it's not enough if you wait til the older is no longer a toddler, there are plenty of reports of pre-teens and teens killing their younger siblings.

So it's obviously too risky to have more than one DC.

I wouldn't bring a 6/7 year old dog home with no background knowledge of it from a pub because its owner wanted rid when I was expecting a new baby and then leave it alone with the baby no. Which is what seems to have happened here.

I wouldn't rescue a great big dribbling mastiff from a rehoming centre and house it in a small flat with a young child which is what happened to the recent 5 year old.

I wouldn't buy a banned breed and allow it to stay upstairs alone with an 11 month old at my boyfriends house either.

Thats all the recent cases, every one while I feel sick to my soul for the families were acts of massive negligence and idiocy sorry. What terrifies me is I could be walking in the park letting the girls run and be the victim of someone else's stupid dog owning decision.

I personally wouldn't get a dog now until DC3 (when they are here) are at least 5 but I won't judge people who already have a dog, care for it properly and keep it safely away from the kids.

I think one solution is to bring back licensing, insist on a training course for all dog owners that they HAVE to pay for, and a PAID FOR license and make owning pet insurance the law. Prosecute and jail anyone who defies these laws. If you can't afford or can't be arsed to go on the course and jump through the hoops then it proves you can't afford and won't be arsed to train the dog you would have owned.

Needtobediscreet
I was laughing at the idea posted upthread that more than one dog equals a pack and a smelly house.
Two people cleaners, 3 machine type ones. Lots of cleaners. Asthmatic dc.

I have no idea why parents would want a pet...more mess, more shit to clear up and more expense.

228 children died in 2009 alone due to their parents - maybe children should not have parents.....

23 dog attacks causing death between 2003-2012

I think if you don't own a dog you can tend to be anxious about a dog and baby living together. But for us dog owners it is a very natural situation. I actually don't know a single non dog household within my friendship circle and all have had the dog/baby combination.

We have a beautiful 8 year old lab who we all adore and is very much part of our family. He is a gentle giant but he is also a dog and can not tell us when he is poorly or wants to be left alone. So as a parent we have also had to train our children about how to be behave towards him. I'm also vigilant when the kids have their friends over, for me this is just common sense. Currently got a situation with the little girl across the road who keeps coming and stroking him through the gate. As much as I trust him this makes me very uncomfortable and I wish to God her parents would tell her to stay away. I only know she is there by the dog's tail wagging.

Totally agree with Select and the owners being the problem.

Formerbabe

You missed out having to pull things out of your dogs arse. People should talk about that more if you want to reduce dog ownership.
And fox shit rolling.
And eating their own vomit.

The anti dog lot miss all the best stuff.

There are an awful lot more parents than dogs.

Many,many incidents don't cause death but do cause injury,scarring,trauma and phobia.Many won't even be treated.

Nutty - I absolutely agree that some children should not have (their) parents i.e. should be taken into the care of people who can look after them properly.

I mean, as the saying goes, in this country, anyone can have a child (biology permitting) but you need an (expensive) licence to own a dog, right? Oh, hold on, no, anyone can own a dog too, can't they?

I do acknowledge the all-too-common and tragic crossover between people who aren't fit to be parents and people who aren't fit to own dogs (or any pet) but one more than one occasion on this thread, owning a dog has been made out to be analogous with something it absolutely isn't i.e. having a child, having more than one child, having a parent, owning and using a car or a kettle etc.

OP - our not is not really a working dog, just goes to the farm most days. He is 12 so sleeps a hell of a lot when at home. To be fair he sleeps a lot in the tractor too. He can probably jump into the playpen but hasn't and we have had it out several times with a musical mobile attached and baby nephew in. So far zilch interest, also ignores the baby, baby sounds and other bits. The farm is and educational one so he is used to children being around.

But I will always be vigilant with him around children. Its the dog owners who are lazy to do this that are the problem.

It only takes seconds for a child to drown in the bath or be trapped under a chest of drawers or be strangled by blind cords.

Actually what are the stats for children harmed or killed by blind cords? I think its a fairly regular story in newspapers sadly.

pag I was being dry ^ but you make a sensible point sure enough.

I look forward to having a dog when kids are older. I would also feel more confident in my own capacity re time and attention to dog and it interaction with family to be comfortable with the risk of harm should that risk reveal itself in the dog.

Part of the issue behind dangerous dogs is the complete disinterest seemingly shown to the chav population who go out and buy a dog from the bloke down the pub and proceed to attempt to 'look ard'. It's so frustrating to see the typical parade of young lads being dragged down the road by snarling unsocialised dogs on leads that they simply can't control. It's led to an image of many dog breeds that is largely unfair.

UK rescues are heaving with staffies and staffy mixes. At some point the government has to step in and start regulating breeding so that people who fancy making a few quid by breeding dogs in their sheds can't do it as easily as they currently can. Then they need to find a way to control animal ownership.

My vet does legal reports for local rescues and the RSPCA. I spend a lot of time there with having a pup as we are in and out for weighing and worming. I'm so frustrated and sick of seeing beautiful big dogs brought in covered in bite marks and scratches and painfully underweight because anyone can go out, buy an animal and treat it like shit.

"Cory are you serious? Tell us about a baby killed by a toddler?"

There was the very sad case just a year or two ago, where a toddler boy out his baby sibling in the tumble dryer because his nappy was wet when the mum was asleep.

Don't know if it's been mentioned but I know of a family who tragically lost their baby after a cat smothered it. Many moons ago mind but still...

I have two lab's... They are trained properly and the children respect that they are dogs... not children and they all have a healthy respect for strange dogs we meet.

Couldn't imagine life with out my dogs. They enrich our lives so much. They are the only reason we wrap up and go outside when it's miserable as walking them forces us all out to play in muddy puddles even when I would rather stay inside

There was a case recently where the mum fell asleep and the toddler drowned a dtb baby when he gave him a bath

So, to sum up:

Some people can't understand why other people choose to share their homes with smelly, shitty, hairy potential killers.

Some people would go further and have ownership of and/or public exposure to the smelly, shitty, hairy potential killers very tightly regulated.

Some people find it hard to understand why other people can't recognise that some people enjoy the perceived benefits of sharing their home with a dog.

Some people acknowledge that other people can't recognise the perceived benefits of sharing their home with a dog but think that's fine so long as they are allowed to continue to do so responsibly.

Some people are downright offended that not everyone loves and trusts their dogs like they do.

Some people aren't really fussed either way.

Same as every other dog thread, really...

I have a few "killer" German shepherds and nope they where not here first. I am not an idiot though and the dogs and children are never alone together and the dogs have never bitten anyone (not the postie or anyone) my doors have internal locks so should I need to pop upstairs the dogs go into the kitchen I lock the door and as if by magic the dogs and children are safely separated.

Idiots who let dogs wonder freely with children wondering freely are idiots as stated. They are the ones who risk life's not responsible owners.

Most reports will name large dogs as the most aggressive but that's not true they just do more damage the amount of people I personally know who have been bitten by ankle dogs but nobody reports because it "did no harm" is stupid..

Dh got a good bite from a chihuahua the owner says that the dog was just playing.. Irresponsible owner

yabvu

Ok thinking101.
I was just bumfuzled and didn't understand.