To be really worried there's something more sinister to this? Feel like I've failed DD

[karenaanna]

This could be long, sorry. Have NCed. Not sure this is the right place to post but more traffic and want to know if I'm worrying over nothing.

A bit of background- DD is almost 18 and is yet to start her period. I took her to the GP when she was 14 as I was concerned she wasn't showing any real signs of starting to hit puberty and they put it down to she being small for her age combined with the amount of intense exercise she does- at the time she was doing 20ish hours of semi-professional dance school a week and was planning on a dance career, she's now doing 18 hours but no longer wants to dance professionally, although she's still dancing at the same intensity. To this day she's never really had typical teenage mood swings.

Over the last few weeks, since the new year maybe she's put on a lot of weight, she's always been tiny, very ballerina esque and it's almost like she's suddenly gone into the pre puberty baby fat stage but at 17. Her level of physical activity and diet haven't changed. She hasn't said anything but is clearly aware. She's meant to be at a half term dance intensive this week starting today but came and woke me up in the middle of the night- which she hasn't done since she was about 6- in tears with what she described as stomach ache 'down there' (potential sign period is about to start?) and begged me not to make her go today. I sent her back to bed with neurofen and a hot water bottle and told her she'd probably feel better in the morning, but I'm getting an overwhelming vibe from her she doesn't want to go.

She hasn't been herself for the last few weeks, she's last year of Sixth form, so applications for further education. She's had offers from all of her chosen universities back but was inconsolable last week as she's also been rejected from all of the specialist drama schools she applied for- the Ucas application was for another subject and intended as a back up as the specialist drama schools are so competitive. When she sent off the applications she was intending to take up the university place if she didn't get a drama school place, but now it's actually happened she's decided she doesn't want to go to university and wants to reapply for drama school next year. She's at an academic school and so not getting any offers for a chosen course is very unusual, I don't think it's been easy for her seeing all her friends getting excited about university and place offers knowing she's going to be reapplying next year. She's been really low and unhappy since then, again she hasn't said as much, but she clearly hasn't been happy.

Since January she's had fainting episodes/dizzy/temporary lost vision spells, and episodes of what DD describes as severe pins and needles, she's had it a few times in dance classes and had to sit out because she can't physically put weight on her leg. Her dance teacher put it down to stress, I'm starting to wonder if it's all somehow connected and I should have pushed harder for a proper examination before. Do I take her to the walk in centre or is that overreacting?

I'd be wanting to exclude an ovarian cyst and an imperforate hymen, so would want the Gp to do a gentle but thorough examination/ and or refer for an ultrasound.

On the drama school issue, I can feel for you, my DD is a year behind yours but totally conflicted about Uni/drama school ( head/heart thing)

An awful lot of hugely successful actors went to Uni and then did post grads in acting or like Emma Thomson went straight on to perform... Benedict Cumberbatch, Olivia Coleman, Naomie Harris etc

Do any of her Uni offers have fantastic drama societies, they take productions to Edinburgh and all over, could that be an option?

No more time wasted than a year out to reapply :)

Sorry if done but is she pregnant?

Couldn't agree more with borchestershireblue's part. Spot on.

Op hope you get some answers and help for your daughter on Thursday from qualified medical professionals

Seasicksal with respect if you work in a hospital department dealing with missed diagnoses and cock ups your view isn't exactly going to be balanced. Of course these things happen, I'm not denying it, but they are actually not that common. And almost always happen because a doctor has made a genuine mistake because they are human beings not machines. Not because they can't be arsed or don't care.

I hope you get some answers soon OP, you do sound worried.

Is it possible she is suffering from bulimia karenaanna.

My sister was anorexic and then became bulimic at about this age and it's ringing a lot of bells for me.

OP I'm glad you are going back to GP. If she is in more pain / unwell in the meantime I would consider a+e.

Just a thought, is she scratching because she's unhappy or because she is actually itchy? Is her abdomen swollen? Is there any yellow tinge to her skin? Unusual bruises? Yeses might signify a liver condition.

The significant weight gain in short period of time sounds most peculiar to me. (ps I am a doctor). Hope you get other sorted down x

OP, I hope you find the answers you seek tomorrow - I cannot and will not play armchair doctor, but cannot read this thread without offering you and your lovely DD .

I was hoping you would be able to see a doctor sooner than Thursday. OP, if you daughter won't eat, might it be a good idea to give her some Dioralyte to keep her electrolytes up? If she's got to wait till Thursday to see a GP you don't want her to get even worse in the meantime.

I feel very sorry for you and your DD, this is such a worry.

Hello OP, hope your daughter is feeling better. No medical advice I'm.afraid but thought it might be helpful to comment on the drama school/ uni thing. It's not at all standard to go for conservatoire training at 18. Going to uni first can be a good option, then following up with a post grad somewhere. It is spenny but you can get bursaries etc. Even working for a few years or travelling would be better than hitting drama school at 18. If you live in an area with a good scene, pt work combined with signing up for groups/ workshops and any and all related jobs (even the box office etc) for a year or so would be more attractive to admins at drama schools than a straight from school candidate.

Sorry, don't think I made it very clear before- I was worried about bringing up the weight part, yes, but everything was mentioned at the GP yesterday, as much as I want to protect DD I want to get to the bottom of whatever it is that's wrong with her.

She's definitely not pregnant. I've also ruled out ectopic pregnancy at this point- I know what teenagers can be like but I honestly think she's so desperate for this to be over I don't think she'd lie to me. She understands why I'm asking.

CathyandClaire this is what I've been trying to tell her. All of her universities she has offers from take productions to Edinburgh- she's been a couple of times now and refused to consider any that didn't! But her offer isn't for drama because a few months ago she wanted a completely different back up, now she's changed her mind [sigh] She's normally very rational and optimistic but I think everything is just a bit much for her at the moment.

The food issues have come to light in the last few hours, but I suppose bulimia is still possible. She's not in any pain at the moment, she says she's not, anyway.

Her abdomen is swollen but no yellow tinge- the GP put it down to her period starting, though still no other symptoms to suggest that. I honestly don't think she'd be so careful not to scratch in front of me if it was because it's itchy.

I've cut wheat out of her diet completely as of today, we'll see if that makes a difference. I've given her dioralyte, she seems tired but I'm putting that down to stress and eating very little last night/this morning.

It's scary.

could it be liver problems? swollen tummy and itching, unless the scratching is more self harm?

In terms of Bulimia, it's pretty much impossible for someone to tell you they have bulimia, or an eating disorder, as part of what it does is hide itself, and change the mindset of the person who has it, in a way that they wouldn't necessarily feel they were lying or deceiving you by saying they don't have a problem. (Sorry, that is far too long-winded.)

Cutting out gluten is a good idea at this stage, I know a few people who found this was the solution for similar weight gain (but not the periods stopping.)

Don't cut out wheat until you've seen a doctor again, if she does have coeliac disease it can only be properly diagnosed whilst on a gluten containing diet, if you're going to ask the doctor to do blood tests don't change her diet til these have been done.
Puberty and periods-wise, do you know what her breast development and pubic hair is like? If she is embarrassed about discussing that kind of thing, go on google images and get a diagram of tanner stages before you go back to the doctors, ask her if she can tell you or the doctor what stage she is closest to, you would expect a girl to be at tanner stage 3 when her periods start, so this helps give an idea of whether it is delayed puberty or just delayed periods.
As far as referrals are concerned, this is where adult medicine is so much more frustrating than paeds, if she was younger a gp could just refer to a paeds clinic and all the basic investigations could be done there. In adult medicine you often need a reasonably good idea of what's going on before referral so you can refer to the right person, there's no point referring to everyone as much more likely for things to be duplicated or missed as gastro think gynae have tested x and medicine think neurology haven't ordered y so they do it too! There are a lot of things that a gp can do or organise to work out what's going on before referring, for example blood tests, an ultrasound of the abdomen and so on. If it was me going to my gp I would definitely push for investigations but not necessarily for a referral (yet) unless it was very clear who I needed referring to, or the gp thought I was sick enough to warrant an acute admission and sent me straight to hospital.

I don't know about the physical/health side, but if you can make your daughter see that rising up from a setback like not getting into drama school will make her all the better and stronger. My own daughter is not good at that sort of thing, but my friend's daughter has always had to struggle to get into the school she wants and has "failed" lots of times. Now she has a honors master's degree and is applying her doctorate. I soo much admire that quality in her. I would guess that drama schools are in great demand and she is not just competing with people of her own age but also against more mature students.

It's such a tough time but you will get to the bottom of this. Good luck with your doc tomorrow

I keep quoting Uni facts at DD1 til I'm blue in the face but I think it helps to know that Drama school isn't always everything. A good friend of ours studied Law and was in many more productions during her three years than many we know at conservatoires, she now has a post grad acting place, with a huge amount of knowledge, maturity and experience. It Drama/MT socs they also get a chance to direct/choreograph and write and generally learn to be creative in a different way.

Check out this blog by a friend of DD's about the whole audition process.

A relative of mine got into a really good drama school (she went on an audition preparation course, which helped), but several years out of drama school now has not been able to get one single paid job. There's so much rejection in drama. I think you must have to be really tough to make a go of it (my relative eventually gave up on it and got an ordinary job).

When you were at the doctors did you leave her and the gp alone or were you there for the whole time? If so it might be worth leaving them alone next time in case there is something she doesn't want to bring up in front of you but would tell the doctor.

Some paediatricians see adolescents up to 18, so maybe you can be referred to one if you don't get any joy out of your GP? Either way, please do not get freaked out by armchair doctors, the range of illnesses suggested is just bonkers and it's not helpful to put ideas in your head. Just go in with a blank slate but be as open as you can. One positive I noticed was that your DD opened up to you, keep trying to get her to talk. You sound like a great mum.

She's been very teary today, slept a lot, didn't want to go out. Not convinced I'm doing the right thing really, I just hope I'm making it a bit better for her. She's missed her theatre group for the first time since she joined 4 years ago tonight which really says to me she's feeling very self conscious :( she's been eating much better this afternoon but then got all upset that she shouldn't have eaten because she's just going to put on more weight. Been keeping a close eye on her, I'm almost positive she hasn't been sick. Been cuddling her lots and noticed her belly feels much softer than yesterday, which perhaps rules out a fluid buildup and points more to hormonal? What it has confirmed to me is she's carrying masses of belly fat even in comparison to a couple of weeks ago, which is a bit scary. The scratching is self harming rather than anything medical I think :(

Looking at the tanner scale I'd say she was about a 3 right before Christmas, now more like a 4/5. No family history of delayed puberty.

I went out for part of the GP appointment, yes.

Okay fair point, some of us are medical but those that are would never ever suggest OP does anything other than go back to a doctor

Some people find it helpful to discuss around topics like this as it will help them present any relevant symptoms to the doctor and also it will avoid minimising something which may be quite serious

I do however see your point, and recognise that some people may find it more upsetting than 'googling' symptoms which is never a good idea. Generally though I am not sure they should put a thread in AIBU about it

so, I am sure a lot of people here were trying to be helpful and supportive giving OP some perhaps relevant, though more likely inapplicable and irrelevant, information to think about. It is of course not OP's job to differentially diagnose her DD that is for the medical team to do, but it can help to be informed and start ruling things out when symptoms so non specific, and it can help reassure that she is not in the wrong to refer back to medical professionals.

OP I think perhaps the food/self esteem/ harm/ ? bulimia ? purging anorexia is quite a significant possibility I wish you and your DD the very best, don't panic whoever's care you are under will get to the bottom of it pretty quickly, just encourage DD to be open and honest and reassure her

Bulimia. The whole thing sounds like bulimia, especially with the rapid weight gain and the self harm and the reticence about eating, especially with the reticence about eating.

It's not a bad thing, it's just another kind of illness.

Has she got any swelling on her face? Small cuts/marks/scars on her knuckles?

The dizziness and vision loss/fainting could be down to iron deficiency and/or anemia - I've had this in the past and it was very troubling for some time!

Scratching herself needs to be sorted out, it's often the starting point for "proper" self harm, and she really doesn't want to go down that route.

19lb in a short time would be upsetting for most people to be fair, but it certainly is not impossible at all. I wouldn't immediately go down the eating disorder route (I've had ED forever) - many, many teens will have this sort of reaction to such a big, quick weight gain. Especially when being a perfectionist person with high standards for herself, which sounds like your daughter!

Mefenamic acid works wonders btw!

Don't change her diet or anything else at this point, it could interfere with getting her diagnosed if it changes things. I get that it's tempting but I think it'd do more harm than good in terms of getting down to the real problem.

I wouldn't assume everything is down to 1 issue, it could be a couple of things coming up at once. However, I wouldn't go to the assumption that it's something very serious straight away, sometimes things have very simple explanations, and sometimes not.

Somethings not quite right here, so keep poking doctors until something happens. Don't think you need A/E or anything - just be persistent and swift rather than panic and make it all more stressful than needs be.

Good luck on thursday!

Ah OK, maybe taking gluten out of her diet wasn't the best idea then Although she has been visibly less swollen today which is making me think gluten is at least part of the problem? Not sure.

krindlekrax it's much harder to treat though isn't it? :( Her face is much fuller than a few weeks ago but it's difficult to tell whether it's swelling or part of the weight gain.

She's definitely finding it all very distressing, it's difficult to know how to help her :( On a brighter note, she's just checked her school email and she has an A* in her history coursework essay :) [insert proud mummy emotion]